Stuck in irons.. help please.

[Wind Chime]

Getting stuck in irons can happen in lighter winds because there is not enough way-on (boat/momentum) before attempting the maneuver. Higher winds usually produce higher boat speeds which makes tacking easier (jibeing more dangerous) and back winding the headsail (if required) more successful.

I have two tips to pass along that may be worth considering.

1) DON'T BE TO GENTLE INTO THE TURN - turning too slowly makes you vulnerable to irons. As smooth aggressive turn (without stalling the rudders) will give a tack best option to succeed. And don't be afraid to over steer past the turn, going low after a turn will help power up the sails and you can feather back up into the wind for proper position after sails Regain pressure and are pulling again. Creates an "S" wake, but that fine imho.

2) DON'T UNDERVALUE MOVABLE BALLAST - our Mac can be steered to a certain amount by the angle of heel, (fluid dynamics) just like a dingy sailer. Lean left the boat goes right. Fully loaded for cruising at 4000-ish pounds I can steer the boat just by moving to one side of the cockpit or the other. Need a little extra help getting through a tack ... add crew weight to to the windward side at the right time may help you steer through the iron hole.

My 2 cents

[sunshinecoasting]

I noticed no one so far has mentioned your rig or tuning specifically relating to mast rake, my X used to suffer exactly like yours but I had an estimated (and rediculous)e10 degree rake on my mast so I re-tuned everything to bring the mast forward to the factory 4 degrees and immediately noticed a major difference, I almost never get stuck in irons anymore, regardless of sails up. Have a look at your rake and see if it should be moved forward, it makes a huge difference to your CE.

Dennis,

[Tomfoolery]

X's too

Something else I have noticed, and this is on my . If you are moving less than, or at, two MPH (3.21 KPH, 1.73 knots), successfully getting through a tack is damn near impossible.

I like all of the knowledge coming out about sail balance and wind, but you need to be moving at better than 2MPH to complete the maneuver. wind or not. If you take your time while tacking, you can loose all forward momentum to carry you through.

Ray

I didn't notice if anyone said it yet, but don't slack the jib sheet until the wind, what there is of it, has pushed the bow around. I've never had to run the iron genny to get around once I started delaying the jib maneuver to back-wind it.

Also, the X isn't very good under main alone, even with the CB brought back, but it is very good with genoa alone. The big sail brings the CE further back than the jib, of course, and it's quite easy to sail like that, with the CB full down.

[dlandersson]

It's poor man's auto-pilot heaven - just kick back and chill.

X's too

Something else I have noticed, and this is on my . If you are moving less than, or at, two MPH (3.21 KPH, 1.73 knots), successfully getting through a tack is damn near impossible.

I like all of the knowledge coming out about sail balance and wind, but you need to be moving at better than 2MPH to complete the maneuver. wind or not. If you take your time while tacking, you can loose all forward momentum to carry you through.

Ray

I didn't notice if anyone said it yet, but don't slack the jib sheet until the wind, what there is of it, has pushed the bow around. I've never had to run the iron genny to get around once I started delaying the jib maneuver to back-wind it.

Also, the X isn't very good under main alone, even with the CB brought back, but it is very good with genoa alone. The big sail brings the CE further back than the jib, of course, and it's quite easy to sail like that, with the CB full down.

[Calin]

When you have your main alone, the center of pressure is about 1/3 the size of the boom aft from the mast. That puts it too close to the stern increasing the weather helm. With the genoa/jib up the weather helm is reduced as the center of pressure goes forward. You want just a "little" weather helm in order to tack easily and avoid been stuck in iron. The resulting center of pressure (main + jib) moves forward with more jib/genoa sail (un furling) or aft with un-reefing the main sail. Also the sail that catches more wind ( higher angle to the wind and more tension in the lines) will contribute more the the center of pressure.
I would suggest to try first with a reefed main. As you turn for tacking, continue tension your jib and to lesser extend the main in to maintain traction and speed till you pass over the the eye of the wind. When you reach the point when you feel that you are about to slow down, turn a little faster. Never turn the rudders too much (i think you can turn 2.5 left or right so don't go past 1.5 to avoid stalling). After to passed over the eye of the wind keep maintaining your jibe tight till you feel the tack is secured. Then adjust quickly the sails as needed to avoid excessive heel.

Also, noticed a huge improvement when the engine is out the water. The propeller has a significant resistance impacting tacking.

[dlandersson]

Ditto

Also, noticed a huge improvement when the engine is out the water. The propeller has a significant resistance impacting tacking.

[BOAT]

Ditto

Also, noticed a huge improvement when the engine is out the water. The propeller has a significant resistance impacting tacking.

if your going to leave the engine in the water when you are sailing then that's a pretty good quick way to get out of irons. Just turn the key and in 2 seconds you will be out of irons.

there are a few places where I do sail with the engine down - the entrance into Oceanside Harbor can be really treacherous even in normal situations - but lately they have this huge dredging barge out there blocking half of the harbor entrance making you thread the needle between rocks and the dredge in what can become a 6 foot ground swell pretty fast and often with breakers. As I sail into that hazard I tilt the motor down just in case I suddenly get a pile of traffic coming out at the same time and I find I need to make some crazy maneuvers.

If your sailing with the motor in the water go ahead and use it.

[Hamin' X]

One thing that has been hinted at, but not fully developed; just before you initiate the tack, fall off the wind a bit. This will increase your speed a bit and as you come back into the wind, you will feel the boat accelerate. This momentary boost will carry you through the tack. Always, backwind the foresail in light air and fall off on the other side enough to fill the sails. Whenever possible, use the foresail when only using one sail. Sometimes, in light air, if you work the wheel back-and-forth you will find that you will move the boat. It is similar to sculling with a tiller steered boat. In light air, trim the sails a baggy as you can. This is where a Boom Kicker shines.

~Rich

[Calin]

Ditto

Also, noticed a huge improvement when the engine is out the water. The propeller has a significant resistance impacting tacking.

if your going to leave the engine in the water when you are sailing then that's a pretty good quick way to get out of irons. Just turn the key and in 2 seconds you will be out of irons.

there are a few places where I do sail with the engine down - the entrance into Oceanside Harbor can be really treacherous even in normal situations - but lately they have this huge dredging barge out there blocking half of the harbor entrance making you thread the needle between rocks and the dredge in what can become a 6 foot ground swell pretty fast and often with breakers. As I sail into that hazard I tilt the motor down just in case I suddenly get a pile of traffic coming out at the same time and I find I need to make some crazy maneuvers.

If your sailing with the motor in the water go ahead and use it.

Yes motor sailing gives you more control. Agree that it helps in crowded/dangerous areas. I also think it helps in weak or strong winds or high waves. But if you just want just to sail, hear the wind and the waves, if you want to go the fastest possible by sail, or if your engine is broke:( it is better to raise up the engine. Besides there are few threads on how to decouple it from the steering so it's weight doesn't pull on the steering. At high waves, when having low speed, lowering the engine will help with the heeling. Also I will rase it just enough for the propeller to clear the water. Would leave the bulb in the water. I think it helps reducing the turbulence.

[mdbrown]

I'm pretty new to sailing. We just purchased a '92 M26S last month. I was having a bear of a time getting stuck in irons...seemed like every time I went out it happened multiple times. I had a good buddy, retired chap with 40+ years of sailing experience, go out with me on the lake.

Two things he saw right away -
1. I would adjust the mainsheet and then lock the line in. I would hold it in my hand, but it was locked.
2. I was fighting the boat with the rudder. I'd adjust the main and then immediately hold in more rudder.

Keeping the main not locked but tight in your hand allows you to make small, constant adjustments if needed. Plus, if you have the main in one hand and the rudder in the other you can tell when you've got the boat balanced - when you aren't fighting the trim with drag from the rudder. I tried this the very next time I went out solo, and it worked perfectly. I didn't get stuck a single time. I would make minor course corrections by changing my sail trim and keeping the rudder neutral. Makes sense, doesn't it? The angle to the wind changes every time you point the bow someplace else, and so the sail trim needs some slight adjustments. Why not keep the rudder amidships and adjust course by trimming the sail a bit? When I started doing this, I had much more fun sailing. I was "feeling" the boat and was making the right adjustments instead of fighting things. Sailing just "clicked" from then on.

On the topics of motors in the water, I had a motor tilt problem on my yamaha 8hp. I couldn't get it to tilt no matter what I tried. Turned out I needed to have it in forward gear for it to tilt. I'm pretty sure that isn't by design, but the fix will have to wait until the winter. Before I figured out how to tilt it, I would sail with it down. Tacks to port were very easy...of course, because the motor dragging was like someone sticking a big paddle in the water helping me through the turn. Tacks to starboard nearly always resulted in me getting stuck in irons or slowing down considerably because the extra drag of the motor was hurting and not helping.

Again...I'm very new and still learning so take my advice in context with everything else you've been told. I'd recommend two things - get the motor tilted up if you want to sail, and keep that mainsheet in your hand unless you are established on a long fetch.

Oh, and have fun!
MB

[sailboatmike]

I know the Yamahas and I presume most others lock in place in reverse of obvious reasons, I had a very close call when I didnt get the motor locked down in reverse while heading for the dock being pushed by wind and tide, clicked into reverse and gave the motor a few RPM (Read a big handful) and the motor just flew out of the water and the boat continued toward the dock at a frightening pace, lucky the old JOG boats are built like brick outhouses, big bang as I hit the dock, no damage to the boat, but entertainment for the usual spectators that just always happen to be there when you mess up

[darrenj]

Needing to put it in forward before it will tilt is by design.
I spent a lot of time figuring that out.

It makes sense if you think about it. If motoring forward you want it to kickup if it hits something.
If you reverse you don't want it to kickup.
If you are going forward and pop it into neutral you normally don't want it to kickup.

[gianpaolo]

I solved the coward way, lowering the motor and helping myself with it

[NiceAft]

I solved the coward way, lowering the motor and helping myself with it

Not a coward at all. It was smart

At one time or another, we have all been in that situation. Why waste time fighting the situation. Lower the motor and move on. Learn what you did wrong, and move on.

Ray

[Ixneigh]

There are times when picking up both rudders will cause the M model to come about instantly. I now use this truck routinely in shallow waters where I do not have the board down all the way. It works best with a small, or no, jib. The boat needent have much way on her. Sheet the main in, then pick up both rudders, then lower them once the boat is around. You would have to experiment on your own, in conditions you normally sail in. Typically in shallow water ill have the board up, and be either dragging the rudders or have them tied half way up, in the position the manual tells you not to have them in. Ill be ghosting the boat along, looking at the bottom. Probably with just a main since I don't want to go fast. The boat will not come about like this, normally. (The Skeg addition makes it even more difficult) but picking the rudders all the way up will make her do it.

Ix