12 volt cooler or refrigerator

[kmclemore]

As RIS noted, the Engel coolers are probably the best you can buy, though they are pricey. They cool well, are noiseless and use less energy than any other cooler you'll likely ever find. They have the added advantage of fitting nearly perfectly under the dinette seat of the 26X. There have been a great many previous postings about the Engel coolers and there's quite a few install photos of them on this forum... once the search facility if fixed, of course!

https://www.engelcoolers.com/12volt-fri ... ezers.html

[BOAT]

That is an excellent link - thanks greatly for that.

[kevinnem]

I wish I understood the limits of the thermoelectic devices better, as well as the efficiency curves and stuff. I think they might fit the mac "philosophy" pretty well. You can buy the units on ebay, and even temperature sensors and stuff as well. and BUILD the system for like 20-30$. You could build it with tons of insulation and have it work pretty well I think. I also think you might be able to make an "ice maker" for cheap, that you power when teh sun is t it highest, and you have the most solar available, . and then put the ice in the fridge to keep it cool.

while there is no question the compressor units are better, they are more money, and I think that the use of gas makes it less accessible to us mere mortals.

anyone on here well informed on the properties of these themoelectric peltier devices?

[kadet]

As RIS noted, the Engel coolers are probably the best you can buy, though they are pricey. They cool well, are noiseless and use less energy than any other cooler you'll likely ever find. They have the added advantage of fitting nearly perfectly under the dinette seat of the 26X. There have been a great many previous postings about the Engel coolers and there's quite a few install photos of them on this forum... once the search facility if fixed, of course!

https://www.engelcoolers.com/12volt-fri ... ezers.html

That may have been true 20 or so years ago but the advancements in compressor technology such as variable speed in SECOP as used in the Waeco/Dometic line of fridges have caught up to and left Engle behind especially in warmer climates. Newer compressor technology like SnoMaster are even better.

The Engel compressor uses less moving parts making it is very efficient when in cooler climates but the swing compressor it uses is limited to a maximum of 2.5a. This design means it can run out of puff very quickly, and before long it will remain running almost constantly using more power over 24hrs.

Waeco/Dometic use a variable speed compressor that has the ability to work harder in the hotter conditions. This allows the fridge to cool down quicker so it can turn itself off and “cycle” which reduces the average power consumption over 24hrs.

Either of these are good but both are expensive and there are less expensive options that are almost as good.

Personally I chose an unnamed brand 80litre SECOP powered freezer that uses about 60AH per 24hrs set at -15c because it was half the price of a genuine Waeco/Dometic and about 90% as efficient, insulation probably is not as good as a Waeco/Dometic hence the 10% increase in power. But I was willing to wear that for the saving in $$ and have put it in an insulated travel bag to improve it

[sailboatmike]

I wish I understood the limits of the thermoelectic devices better, as well as the efficiency curves and stuff. I think they might fit the mac "philosophy" pretty well. You can buy the units on ebay, and even temperature sensors and stuff as well. and BUILD the system for like 20-30$. You could build it with tons of insulation and have it work pretty well I think. I also think you might be able to make an "ice maker" for cheap, that you power when teh sun is t it highest, and you have the most solar available, . and then put the ice in the fridge to keep it cool.

while there is no question the compressor units are better, they are more money, and I think that the use of gas makes it less accessible to us mere mortals.

anyone on here well informed on the properties of these ?

Yep thermoelectric peltier devices are highly inefficient but cheap, the problem stems from the high levels of heat they must dissipate to cool the hot side, this means running large fans to cool the heat sink, large fans use more power.

I bought a thermoelectric after watching several Youtube videos on improving the performance and came to the conclusion that its like a dog chasing its tail, yes you can improve the cooling efficiency but at the cost of drawing more power by using much bigger and cooling fans (these things are already no power misers drawing around 40watts). My thermoelectric is not a cheapo, mine is a bells and whistles Waco unit and retails for around $300, I can only imagine the significantly cheaper units are even worse at cooling.

Just bite the bullet and buy a compressor driven unit, the extra cost will more than be paid for by not having to have more batteries and a larger solar array and all the messing around that goes with it.

In short, thermoelectric is OK for cars and trucks that have a nice alternator putting out 20 or 30amps and that will be used for relatively short periods of times, but to have on a boat with the small amount of power input from the outboard (even if running a large motor) and solar that is a bit hit and miss depending on the amount of sun on the day just does not add up.

[BOAT]

Okay, so I like to always approuch research as 'money is no object' because it helps me make the best deciscions.

So far if I am reading thei right the best choices are between two units:

ENGLE swing motor

and

Waeco SECOP

Okay, so i will get some comparisons between these two as i continue looking. I am also considering changing my Sprinter Van over from Propane to Electric so I'm going to be looking at a pretty big unit for that one.

[kadet]

BOAT if money is no object and as you live in California where it gets a tad hot get a SnoMaster, OH and they are in the USA too

https://www.snomasterusa.com/

[Tomfoolery]

In short, thermoelectric is OK for cars and trucks that have a nice alternator putting out 20 or 30amps and that will be used for relatively short periods of times, but to have on a boat with the small amount of power input from the outboard (even if running a large motor) and solar that is a bit hit and miss depending on the amount of sun on the day just does not add up.

I use a thermoelectric to keep water bottles cold. It runs on shore power with a power supply. Since I mainly day sail, it's perfect for my needs. Water bottles are always very cold, even on very hot days, though it helps that nights tend to be cool-ish, and the cool water of the Lake helps keep night time interior temps down. In the fall, the water bottles will actually freeze.

For an extended trip with no shore power, I just use a standard cooler with ice. Cheap (came with the boat), no moving parts (if you don't count me), and keeps things nicely cool. It also helps that the cooler is in the box under the galley seat, with a cushion over it, all of which adds some small amount of insulation (very small, but not nothing). But I rarely go on trips with no shore power, so the Igloo thermoelectric is just fine for me.

[BOAT]

Yeah, the old Igloo Playmate has worked great for us even for a couple of nights with no access to ice but we are making more and more extended trips away from civilization as we travel more in the islands and we can't go ashore for ice - there is not even any ice on shore to get in a lot of these places and the back side of Catalina or in the channel islands, so I need to educate myself on solar and high efficient compressor technology.

Really, a thousand bucks is not going to give me a heart attack for the reefer and that snowmaster thing looked great, but I really want something small - do they make a snowmaster that is not so huge? I do not need a real big reefer on the boat - we don't have a BBQ on the boat so we are not transporting steaks or running a gourmet kitchen in the boat - (although I must say that in our Sprinter Van we DO run a HUGE gas absorption Freezer and reefer and my wife does do huge gourmet meals out of the Van all the time so I do know what it's like to haul sides of beef and pork and veggies and cheeses and sauces and everything else you would have in a french kitchen). On the boat it's all about dry goods and canned veggies and snacks.

[Sumner]

.....The Engel compressor uses less moving parts making it is very efficient when in cooler climates but the swing compressor it uses is limited to a maximum of 2.5a. This design means it can run out of puff very quickly, and before long it will remain running almost constantly using more power over 24hrs.

Waeco/Dometic use a variable speed compressor that has the ability to work harder in the hotter conditions. This allows the fridge to cool down quicker so it can turn itself off and “cycle” which reduces the average power consumption over 24hrs.

Either of these are good but both are expensive and there are less expensive options that are almost as good...

I did a lot of research before we bought our fridge. At the time, gone now, was a nice test that was done in Austrailia between about 3-4 coolers at the same time with the same items in them. The Engel drew less current than the ones that were danfoss compressor based (Waeco/Dometic), but as mentioned above it ran a lot longer so in the end they were all very close in total amp/hr per day. Wish the article was still up.



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... de-22.html

We bougth an EdgeStar 63 quart as it was a couple hundred less than the name brands but from what I can tell it seems to be about as effecient. In Florida during March/April it was using about 35 amp/hour a day and this was for the 63 quart size not the smaller 40 quart. It is still quite a bit cheaper...

https://www.compactappliance.com/edgest ... _YQAvD_BwE

Also that amp/hr is with a very full fridge and adding a couple warm drinks a day. There will be a fair amount of difference in amp/hr based on how much you have in the fridge and how many warm items go in it a day. If it is packed, like ours usually is, there is a lot more thermal mass that has to be re-cooled every-time it cycles back on. If our solar has the batteries up I usually turn the cooler down to about 35 during the day and back up to low 40's at night. That way you are using the cooler as storage of power when you have access sun.

If you have very few items in the cooler it is going to use less. The biggest item that makes one more efficient is not the cooling unit but the insulation and most of the portables have about the same. The fridge that I built for the boat uses a compressor that draws between 3 1/2 to 5 amps, more at startup. It is larger and has a freezer compartment but uses about 1/2 to 2/3's the elect. as the protable. 3 inches of insulation in the top and 7 and 9 in the bottom and I think 4 in the sides.

That Snowmaster sure looks very similar to the EdgeStar but more expensive. I wouldn't doubt that it isn't made in the same plant in China. Ours has worked fine but a couple years ago one of the connections by the power control panel had corroded and it was drawing more current. Cleaned that up and it has worked fine since. Used it about 8 months total on trips,

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Russ]

we don't have a BBQ on the boat

You have not lived until you have eaten something grilled on a boat. EVERYTHING tastes better grilled on a boat. We cook everything on the grill. Bacon and eggs, pizza, steak and potatoes. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.

Nothing like sitting at anchor eating a nice grilled piece of meat with an adult beverage in hand.



I got the same fridge as Sumner. It works very nice. I really like not needing ice which ends up leaking and getting food all wet.
For a day, an ice cooler works fine. But for any length of time, the fridge is the way to go. I have 80w of solar that keeps the thing going for a few days.

[kadet]

Really, a thousand bucks is not going to give me a heart attack for the reefer and that snowmaster thing looked great, but I really want something small - do they make a snowmaster that is not so huge?

They do but you end up with a SECOP compressor as the SnoMaster compressor is a 66watt beast designed for big fridges. So if you are going small I would go for a Engle as the advantages of the variable rate compressors is lost on small sizes and the swing compressor comes back into it's own.

[BOAT]

we don't have a BBQ on the boat

You have not lived until you have eaten something grilled on a boat. EVERYTHING tastes better grilled on a boat. We cook everything on the grill. Bacon and eggs, pizza, steak and potatoes. I'm getting hungry just thinking about it.

Nothing like sitting at anchor eating a nice grilled piece of meat with an adult beverage in hand.



I got the same fridge as Sumner. It works very nice. I really like not needing ice which ends up leaking and getting food all wet.
For a day, an ice cooler works fine. But for any length of time, the fridge is the way to go. I have 80w of solar that keeps the thing going for a few days.

Trust me, I have eaten a LOT of meals over my life grilled on a boat!

The big difference is that "Back in the Old Days" we did not have those fancy chrome West marine BBQ jobs with propane bottles and stuff like like that picture above you new fangled modern people use today - nope!

Back in the old days there Were NO BBQ units for boats - but that did not stop my dad - he built one out of black sheet metal and that sucker ran on CHARCOAL and WOOD CHIPS!!



And I bet the meat that came out of that little fire box tasted a lot better than the propane ignited gas broiler you modern guys use today - well, I know they had a LOT of dinner parties out of that little BBQ out in the middle of nowhere when I was a kid and friends would raft up from all over to get a bite of that meat!:




Yeah, I know how good food is when it's properly tended by the right pitmaster off the transom - unfortunately I am not the best cook.

If you really want a treat try a huge boiling pot shrimp boil on the beach in Mexico.

[1st Sail]

Can you leave an Engle or equivalent in the boat while traveling on the trailer without damaging the components? I don't load the boat when traveling but that is one item I prefer not to lift on and off.

[ris]

I not only leave the engel on the boat but leave it running so everything stays cold.