Adding Solar

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Highlander
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Highlander »

Sumner wrote:
Highlander wrote:Has anyone added a GFPD devise between their solar panels & MPPT controller in the event of a ground fault due to say chaffed wiring which seems to b the biggest cause of ground faults as I read it

J 8)
Have you seen one? I just did a search and the only ones I found were for very high voltage solar arrays.

Image

I have fuses on the six 80 watt panels on the Endeavour but they only are there if there was a short in one panel or the wire going to it and the output of the other 5 panels went to that short. Can't really fuse a single panel as you select a fuse to protect a wire and the panel would never output enough to blow that fuse as the fuse would have to be sized larger than the panel's output,

Sumner

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OK Sumner
Yes I had the same result , but I think I,ll ask the solar panel manufacturer & see what they would recommend ! . & maybe all I would need to do is to fuse both poss & neg wires to each panel & I,ll ask them what size fuse they would recommend & up-date

Thx for ur response

J 8)
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Sumner
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Sumner »

Highlander wrote:.... & maybe all I would need to do is to fuse both poss & neg wires to each panel & I,ll ask them what size fuse they would recommend & up-date...
How many panels do you have and what is the output of each? Do they all run separately to the charge controller or to a common spot and then to the controller? What size wiring are you using for the runs and how long are they?

I have the wire from the batteries to the controller fused with a fuse that is sized for that wire as there is the potential for very high amperage in the case of a short since the wire is going to the batteries.

If the wires from the panels to the charge controller are large enough to handle the maximum load the panels can put out then you don't need to fuse them as the panels could never put out enough to harm them. That is the case with the wiring for my panels on the Mac where the 200 watts is only capable of about 13 amps max and all the wiring from the panels to the terminal strip can handle that along with the much larger wire running from there forward to the charge controller.

On the Endeavour five of the six 80 watt panels are capable of putting out about 25 amps. The wires from the junction box to each panel are not large enough to handle 25 amps so each is fused in case one shorted and the 25 amps went to it.

Image

From the junction box down to the charge controller where there could be about 30 amps present....

Image

...... I used #4 wire which is capable of handling over 100 amps so there is no point in fusing that wire as the panels could never put out anywhere near that. So no fuse between the junction box and the controller, but a fuse between the charge controller and the battery as the battery is connected to that wire and is capable of many more amps than what is coming from the panels.

More on all of that wiring here....

http://1fatgmc.com/boat/end-1/endeavour ... age-7.html

You want to really oversize wiring between the panels and the charge controller and from it on to the batteries (the total run) to avoid voltage drop that will reduce the output of your panels. If one does that then a lot of the time your wiring is going to be so large there is no way the panel's output is a problem. One exception to that is my situation on the Endeavour. Another is where they recommend a GFCI (GFPD) because the output voltage from the panels is enough to be lethal to a human, that isn't the case with a 12 or 24 volt solar array.

As a side note, I have two arrays on the Mac that are capable of 560 watts total and they supplied all the electrical needs for the 3 month trip to the Bahamas and two 13-15 day trips since. There were a lot of clouds during some of that and we have a large portable fridge and other draws. We were just out about 5 weeks on the Endeavour and the 480 watts supplied all the power requirements for the fridge/freezer, a lot of computer use by both of us and all the lighting and other needs. Solar is great!!!

Sumner

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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Highlander »

Hi Sumner,

I,m still waiting on the radar arch which I ordered back in Mid Dec , hopefully will arrive shortly then I,ll b mounting my Radar Radome & three 40 watt panels in parallel each 2.3amps . I will run each panel wire to a junction box then to the controller , so I think if I run each panel with a say 3 amp fuse to the controller then poss a 10 amp fuse to the batts just need to confirm fuse amp,s with manufacturer , each panel comes with a 6.7ft quick connect cable & an 8ft quick connect extension cord

J 8)
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Sumner
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Sumner »

Highlander wrote:Hi Sumner,

I,m still waiting on the radar arch which I ordered back in Mid Dec , hopefully will arrive shortly then I,ll b mounting my Radar Radome & three 40 watt panels in parallel each 2.3amps . I will run each panel wire to a junction box then to the controller , so I think if I run each panel with a say 3 amp fuse to the controller then poss a 10 amp fuse to the batts just need to confirm fuse amp,s with manufacturer , each panel comes with a 6.7ft quick connect cable & an 8ft quick connect extension cord

J 8)
I don't see a need for the fuses between the panels and the controller if the wires are at least 16 gauge. 16 gauge easily handle amperage of 15 amps or more and there is no way the panels will ever produce that. I'd also go with 14 or 12 from the panels to minimize voltage drop. A 3 amp fuse on a circuit that can never produce 3 amps means the fuse will never blow. If two of the panels say sent 6 amps to a short in a wire going to a panel with a 3 amp then the fuse would blow, but even a 16 gauge wire would handle that current without harm to the wire. I wouldn't worry about it but I guess 3 amp fuses wouldn't hut anything. I'll be interested in hearing what they say about the fuses.

Use these calculator to figure wire sizes and you can use 17 volts with it for the panel to controller run as that will be about the output voltage of the panel....

https://rimstar.org/renewnrg/solar_volt ... for_dc.htm

Using it and 2.3 amps and 15 feet for the wire that comes with the panels and for no more than a 2% loss they suggest the wire size for that run would be 14 gauge. What size wires are the cables that come with the panels? If the run is very long you might want to forget them and wire direct to the panels like I did. Getting the wires as short as possible between the panels and the junction box and between it and the controller and on to the batteries will help efficiency. If you are trying to run refrigeration on 120 watts of solar you are going to want to make it as efficient as possible, especially in the northwest. If no fridge then 120 watts will be good in most cases,

Sumner

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kurz
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by kurz »

just to ask: If you shortcut a solar panel. I thought it will stop producing power. I'm not shure... but...???
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Sumner
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Sumner »

kurz wrote:just to ask: If you shortcut a solar panel. I thought it will stop producing power. I'm not shure... but...???
From here ....

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/q ... rt-circuit

... it looks like there is no damage to a panel if shorted and "they are rated by their short circuit current" according to the above.

So for the circuit to be safe if a short occurs you just need to make sure the wiring can handle the short and not be overloaded. Wiring from a single panel could never be overloaded as it is sized to carry the fully panel's current to the controller and usually should be way oversize to cut down on voltage drop.

The problem comes, as I see it, when you have multiple panels in parallel. As I've mentioned in my previous posts, if the other panels can send their current to the wire and panel that is shorted and that wire can't handle the combined current of the other panels then there could be a problem. If the individual wires are not sized large enough to carry the combined load then fuse them to protect them and the boat,

Sumner

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kurz
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by kurz »

and: At least some solar regulators short circuit the panels to stop the power. I'm no engeneer so other can explain better. Just to know...
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Highlander
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Highlander »

Called the manufacturer they told me to hook up the panels only in parallel as they r not designed to b hooked in series & too just use the wiring harness,s they supplied they suggested using a three way connector to join all the panels together then run one of the extension cords supplied with the panels to the charge controller so for $15 I ordered one then, I may run a heavier wire from the 3 way to the controller I,ll think about that when it comes time to install as I already have the heavier marine wire in my possession left over from other mods so no extra cost involved :)
gonna have to call & find out where abouts my radar arch is in transport ?

Image

J 8)
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Sumner
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Sumner »

Highlander wrote:..... I may run a heavier wire from the 3 way to the controller I,ll think about that when it comes time to install as I already have the heavier marine wire in my possession left over from other mods so no extra cost involved :) J 8)
I'd for sure go with larger gauge if you have it. Nothing to loose :) . For sure look at the wiring size they supplied and the length of the total run and check out the link to sizing wire for 2% or less voltage loss,

Sumner

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Highlander
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Highlander »

Sumner wrote:
Highlander wrote:..... I may run a heavier wire from the 3 way to the controller I,ll think about that when it comes time to install as I already have the heavier marine wire in my possession left over from other mods so no extra cost involved :) J 8)
I'd for sure go with larger gauge if you have it. Nothing to loose :) . For sure look at the wiring size they supplied and the length of the total run and check out the link to sizing wire for 2% or less voltage loss,

Sumner

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Hi Sumner

They also advised not to install fuses between the panels & a MPPT controller saying that they will create noise that would poss. effect it,s programming interesting to know I thought !

J 8)
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Sumner
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Sumner »

Highlander wrote:...They also advised not to install fuses between the panels & a MPPT controller saying that they will create noise that would poss. effect it,s programming interesting to know I thought ! J 8)
Thanks for the update on that. I didn't think fuses were needed in those circuits, but do have them for the six 80 watt panels on the Endeavour due to the fact they could all feed to one shorted panel or wire going to a panel. I can't say for sure but don't think they have effected the Blue Sky 3024 controller as the sun gave us all the energy we needed for 5 weeks :) . Might call Blue Sky and ask if they see a problem with the fuses in my situation.

Don't have any fuses on the Mac with a smaller Blue Sky 2512x controller as all the wires can handle any amperage the panels could put out.

Sumner

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Highlander
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Re: Adding Solar

Post by Highlander »

Sumner wrote:
Highlander wrote:...They also advised not to install fuses between the panels & a MPPT controller saying that they will create noise that would poss. effect it,s programming interesting to know I thought ! J 8)
Thanks for the update on that. I didn't think fuses were needed in those circuits, but do have them for the six 80 watt panels on the Endeavour due to the fact they could all feed to one shorted panel or wire going to a panel. I can't say for sure but don't think they have effected the Blue Sky 3024 controller as the sun gave us all the energy we needed for 5 weeks :) . Might call Blue Sky and ask if they see a problem with the fuses in my situation.

Don't have any fuses on the Mac with a smaller Blue Sky 2512x controller as all the wires can handle any amperage the panels could put out.

Sumner

============================
1300 miles to the Bahamas and back -- 2015

The MacGregor 26-S

The Endeavour 37

Trips to Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links
Thx Sumner

Keep us all posted like to know what they tell u also this all makes up for good learning tool for all other,s planning on installing solar!

J 8)
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