Pop Quiz: stand-on vs. give-way

[DaveC426913]

I'm willing to be educated, but I'm not aware of any rule in either the international or Canadian versions of COLREGS that gives any status to a vessel under oars (a kayak). That does not mean that we are allowed to run over kayakers

With a few notable exceptions (such as "might makes right"), motoring vessels must yield to sailnig vessels. Of course.

Likewise, with almost no exception, all vessels under power or sail must yield to all muscle-powered vessels.

[EDIT: OMG, I can find no such reg in the COLREGS. My life is a lie.]

[OverEasy]

Or swimmers!!!

[Tomfoolery]

I'm willing to be educated, but I'm not aware of any rule in either the international or Canadian versions of COLREGS that gives any status to a vessel under oars (a kayak). That does not mean that we are allowed to run over kayakers

With a few notable exceptions (such as "might makes right"), motoring vessels must yield to sailnig vessels.

One such notable exception being that if the sailing vessel is under power, even with sails up, it’s just another motoring vessel. And you’re supposed to fly a steaming cone when power-sailing, so others know you’re under power, though folks rarely do that. It’s the daylight version of the masthead (aka “steaming”) light, which you only burn under power, sails hoisted or not.

[OverEasy]

In addition to a”motoring cone” isn’t there also a “sailing ball”?

[Be Free]

In addition to a”motoring cone” isn’t there also a “sailing ball”?

I've never heard of a "sailing ball". The only time you should display a single ball on a sailboat will be an anchor ball. It should be used during the day the same way you would use an anchor light at night. Just like the motoring cone, it is seldom seen in the US but it is technically required.

Two balls is Not Under Command. Three balls is Aground (also mine sweeping in another configuration for naval vessels).

Ball-Diamond-Ball is Restricted in Ability to Maneuver.

[Tomfoolery]

In addition to a”motoring cone” isn’t there also a “sailing ball”?

I've never heard of a "sailing ball". The only time you should display a single ball on a sailboat will be an anchor ball. It should be used during the day the same way you would use an anchor light at night. Just like the motoring cone, it is seldom seen in the US but it is technically required.

Two balls is Not Under Command. Three balls is Aground (also mine sweeping in another configuration for naval vessels).

Ball-Diamond-Ball is Restricted in Ability to Maneuver.

Here's a thread with pop quiz I started four years ago, as a distraction and bit of fun. All about lights and day shapes.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26446&p=328411

[DaveC426913]

...you’re supposed to fly a steaming cone when power-sailing...

:frantically Googles "steaming cone":


I guess I oughtta get one of these. I frequently traverse a short harbour channel that requires all vessels to be under-power, and I motor through without bothering to douse my sails.

[NiceAft]

I’ve been following the thread and noticed that no one mentioned about the other guy who either doesn’t know or care about the rules of the water.

When you enter into a situation where the other guy is determined to not give way, all of the knowledge you have, saving your life comes first. I had that experience on the Delaware.

I was on a starboard tack, getting close to the shore when a large motor yacht was coming full speed on my port side. He was getting close. I blasted my horn, tried to wave him off to no avail. I had to turn hard to starboard, and get shaken by his large wake. He passed me really close, too close. He just didn’t care.
All of the knowledge of who had the right of way meant nothing.

[Be Free]

These pretty much cover what you do when the other guy does not know or choose to follow the rules.

RULE 2
Responsibility
(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case. (b) In construing and complying with these Rules due regard shall be had to all dangers of navigation and collision and to any special circumstances, including the limitations of the vessels involved, which may make a departure from these Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger.

RULE 17
Action by Stand-on Vessel
(a) (i) Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed. (ii) The latter vessel may however take action to avoid collision by her maneuver alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action in compliance with these Rules.
(b) When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of
the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.

You do what may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case, either or both of which may make a departure from the Rules necessary to avoid immediate danger. If in spite of your best efforts you find yourself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the acting of the give-way vessel alone, you take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.

[NiceAft]

Don’t get me wrong, I am not just a believer in having rules to be obeyed, I do my best to follow them.

My point is; what you pointed out only is effective if there is a collision. If there is no enforcing authority around at the time of the close call (a probability), and both parties continue on their way (maybe with an expletive or two). Unless he/she, gets caught, the captain that caused the close call goes on their way to be dangerous over and over again. A Typhoid Mary on the water, so to speak.

[OverEasy]

A photo, date, time and description of circumstances forwarded in a timely manner to the appropriate law authorities in your jurisdiction helps build a case against the scofflaws.

Radioing or calling the USCG or Canadian Maritime Patrol about instances of inappropriate seamanship or ineptitude are also appropriate and helpful so these authorities can take relevant action.

No reporting means the inept or dangerous operator remains a threat to the safety of all.

[OverEasy]

Here are a couple of examples of a “sailing motoring cone” and an “anchor ball” for those not familiar (me) with what they are….








Defender has these items for less than $10 USD each.

Guess I’m gonna be adding to the Christmas list…
I don’t know how I missed these in the refs but at least now I know
Thanks!

[Be Free]

What I posted was was what the "good" boater does to avoid a collision with a "bad" boater. I know it is frustrating when someone else operates their boat in an unsafe or unprofessional manner but there is seldom anything we can do directly to change the behavior of another boater.

One thing you can try is a sécurité call on VHF 16, "There is a (description of boat) being operated in an unsafe manner (description of your location)". If you are real lucky someone with the authority to deal with it may hear and respond appropriately.

Just so you know sometimes the bad guys do get what's coming to them:

I was on a multi-day trip on the St. Johns River. Most of that day was in an area that was posted as no-wake. Around 9AM we were passed by a large "cigarette boat" blasting loud music and running on a plane. There were several scantily clad young women on the bow and I suspect adult beverages had already been consumed. About an hour later (still in the no-wake zone) we encountered the same boat being towed back by a sheriff's boat with the driver in handcuffs and everyone else sitting quietly in the cockpit.

[NiceAft]

I’m all for what was said:

A photo, date, time and description of circumstances forwarded in a timely manner to the appropriate law authorities in your jurisdiction helps build a case against the scofflaws.

Radioing or calling the USCG or Canadian Maritime Patrol about instances of inappropriate seamanship or ineptitude are also appropriate and helpful so these authorities can take relevant action.

It’s so nice and clean to say what you should do, but the reality of the situation, many times means that it is the last thing on your mine.

This is a good thread. It keeps us aware of what we, should, do.

But, as. Be Free said:

If you are real lucky someone with the authority to deal with it may hear and respond appropriately

There is never a cop around when you need one, especially on the water

Of course, if you are able, and you don’t report, it’s a self fulfilling prophesy.

[DaveC426913]

My point is; what you pointed out only is effective if there is a collision. If there is no enforcing authority around at the time of the close call (a probability),

Yeah. Around here (Toronto Harbour), I hear calls on Channel 16 to the Marine Police about violators - especially powerboats going too fast in the channels or inner harbour - the Police go out and pull them over in five minutes.

In my case, it occurred in our own yacht club harbour, with at least three board members no more than 30 feet away (the slipped boat that almost got side swiped was one of them).

My only complaint about the whole thing (since I knew there was no danger of collision) was that the other boater felt he was the stand-on vessel, and I was pretty sure he would make no bones about telling everyone within earshot about it. That kind of gossip can get around.