Lithium Battery Upgrade

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jimmy alonso
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Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by jimmy alonso »

Been doing a number of upgrades as I am planning to be out more on my :macm: . :D

Choose the KiloVault 2400 HLX+ lithium 200 amp hour battery.
Why ? It's available here (no tax or shipping ) Size, it fits in the space on the boat. Also it is UL 1973 certified , Only 59 LBS. Price.

Charging will be done with solar 360 watts of panels they put out max 16 amps, also will be installing soon a Victron DC to DC 18 amp battery charger to charge while running the engine. Charge voltage should not exceed 14.1V and use bulk only. The Victron DC to DC charger can be set to do that.

Made a rough diagram:
Image

Removed old 71 pound battery. Side by side with the new one 59 pounds: (old battery will be used at home for outdoor solar powered lighting)
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Prepared battery space and installed piece of wood to put the Shunts for house and start batteries.
2004 26M battery box is lower and there is a fiberglass cover that needs to be modified because new battery is higher.
Image

Almost done:
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Simple 2 connections to battery the post a Blue Sea MRBF dual fuse block and a smaller fuse block to connect shunt voltage meter, solar and DC to DC charger.
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Start battery was moved to starboard and will be making a box for it. To keep firmly in place.
Will be able to run fans, stereo, computers, fridge etc. even if it rains for a few days with the 3X more amp hours available now. And sail all day too on some tacks the mainsail shadows the solar panels.
I did a test with all cabin lights, fans, fridge, navigation lights/equipment, autopilot on and barely uses 10 amps. Normal usage is about less than 5 amps. I like how the battery voltage stays steady 13.3 to 12.9 until almost down to 60%.
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BOAT
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by BOAT »

So, I am assuming we can't use lithium as our start battery? Is that why you are keeping the cranking battery?
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Russ
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by Russ »

That Victron DC charger device is interesting. I had to look it up. Giving me more food for thought.
--Russ
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NiceAft
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by NiceAft »

Jimmy,

It looks impressive.

I only wish I understood what you are talking about. :o :? :cry: :D
Ray ~~_/)~~
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by OverEasy »

Hi BOAT,

For what it’s worth…
Your engine starter is generally set up for power from a 12 VDC high amp output lead acid battery which generally max out at 12.7 VDC and float at about 12 VDC.

Generally lithium chemistry batteries used by many are 14 VDC low amp output battery which generally max out at 14.7 VDC and float at about 13.8 VDC.

Start and dual purpose Start/Store batteries can reliably handle the high instantaneous amperage required for starting for thousands of cycles and can charge directly from you existing standard outboard engine alternator.

Generally lithium chemistry batteries don’t like rapid high amp discharge rates. (There are some limited special purpose type ($$expensive$$) lithium batteries which can handle to higher amperage loads but aren’t commonly available.

Feeding 14 to 14.7 VDC to a starter designed for 12 to 12.7 VDC may not sound like much to some but the starter will have a much shorter operational life as will the start relay and related engine electronics.

Charging lithium chemistry batteries can ‘eat’ your standard alternator for a couple reasons the foremost being the voltage regulation is set for 12 to 12.7 VDC MAX.

Hence the need for some type of DC to DC converter to step-up the voltage and a separate charge converter limiter circuit for the lithium chemistry batteries vs that for lead-acid type batteries.

Inquisitor has a lot more experience with this sort of issue and I believe he has written on the subject previously.
It would be good to get his input on the subject if possible.

Best Regards
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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jimmy alonso
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by jimmy alonso »

BOAT wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:55 am So, I am assuming we can't use lithium as our start battery? Is that why you are keeping the cranking battery?
Yes. The data sheet on this battery specs say "Do Not Use to Start Engine". The maximum amps out from battery is 150 amps which to crank our small outboards is probably less than that.
The charging is not up to par I have seen 15 volts at times which may cause the Lithium battery BMS to shut down. Thats why a DC to DC charger is necessary.
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Piddle and Futz
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by Piddle and Futz »

Nice setup, Jimmy. Also nice job on the diagram, that really helps me understand your setup. Keep us posted as to how it works out. It's likely that many of us will emulate your good work.
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by OverEasy »

Something of interest…. A 12VDC LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE DUAL PURPOSE BATTERY CAPABLE OF STARTING ENGINES AND DEEP CYCLE
It’s from Dakota Batteries

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Link: https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakot ... y-1000cca/
Specification write-up:
AN ULTRALIGHT ALL-PURPOSE BATTERY FOR BOTH STARTING ENGINES & DEEP CYCLE APPLICATIONS
DL+ 12V 60AH DUAL PURPOSE 1000CCA STARTER BATTERY PLUS DEEP CYCLE PERFORMANCE

(27 REVIEWS)
A multi-purpose work horse, the DL+ 12V 60Ah is built for high performance in the most rugged and varied of conditions. Start your car or boat’s engine, crank up the car audio, or run your trolling motor or other deep cycle electronics — this is one battery built to power many passions. Engineered with Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) technology this battery has twice the power, half the weight, and lasts 4 times longer than a lead acid battery – providing exceptional lifetime value. Built for dual purpose performance the DL+ provides 1,000 cold cranking amps (CCA) and a high continuous discharge rate, making it a great choice for high amp draw applications like starting engines, car audio, heavy machinery, golf carts, or any electronics that require a lot of power at one time. In addition, the DL+ provides the same legendary deep cycle marine performance that Dakota Lithium batteries are known for, giving you lots of power for a long time. This is the most versatile Dakota Lithium battery and includes a terminal adapter kit compatible with most marine, automotive, and deep cycle applications. Easily link in series to create 24V, 36V, or 48V systems. LiFePO4 charger included. Backed up by an 11 year warranty.

Pre-Order now! Due to exceptionally high demand this battery ships January 30. Use coupon code PreOrderDL at checkout for 5% off. Coupon expires January 30
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$699 (Regular price)
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INCLUDE DAKOTA LITHIUM MULTI FUNCTION 300W POWER INVERTER DC 12V TO 110V AC CONVERTER (+ $199 $139)

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————————————————————————————————

I can’t vouch for compatibility to connecting to engine charging capability or possible issues but it advertises to be 12VDC and has the rapid discharge rate o start engines while also acting as a deep cycle storage.

Just thought it might help those interested.

Best Regards
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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jimmy alonso
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by jimmy alonso »

Finished Upgrade.
Made a riser to put battery cover on:
Image

cover back on:
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DC to DC Charger and Solar Charge Controller:
Image

Went out for one week. Everything worked as planned. Still need a longer engine run at higher RPMs to see the max output of the DC to DC charger.
One last picture on the mooring @ Caja de Muertos Island
Image
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ris
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by ris »

Very nice diagram and upgrade. What kind of solar panels do you use?
Richard
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Jimmyt
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by Jimmyt »

jimmy alonso wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 7:15 pm Finished Upgrade.
Went out for one week. Everything worked as planned. Still need a longer engine run at higher RPMs to see the max output of the DC to DC charger.
One last picture on the mooring @ Caja de Muertos Island
Image
Nice job on the install.

I have to say that your testing grounds are stunning! Thanks for sharing!
Jimmyt
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OverEasy
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by OverEasy »

Hi Jimmy Alonso!

Really nice work you have done! :) :)

Question 1: For the Dc to Dc converter —- Does that portion of your system require the Start battery to act as a ballast to absorb the output of the Engine alternator to work properly?

Question 2: For the charging of the lithium battery —- What keeps the Start battery from becoming discharged while the DC to Dc converter is charging the Lithium battery when the engine isn’t running (say at night when there is no Solar generation)?

Is it manually controlled? Or is there some sort of limiter?

Best Regards
Over Easy 😎😎🐩🐈
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jimmy alonso
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by jimmy alonso »

Thanks Ris
I have three 120 watt flexible solar panels connected in series. The combined size is 4' x 6' and with the tubing, etc. it all weighs about 30 lbs
Small bonus there's a little more shade in the cockpit :)

Image.Image
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jimmy alonso
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by jimmy alonso »

Thanks Jimmy
Most of my past trips I just pass the local areas trying to get to the Virgin Islands. US and BVI.
Retired! :) Now I can take it slow enjoy the sunsets :!: Do more upgrades :D go broke :D :D watermaker anyone? :P
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jimmy alonso
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Re: Lithium Battery Upgrade

Post by jimmy alonso »

Overeasy
Question 1: For the Dc to Dc converter —- Does that portion of your system require the Start battery to act as a ballast to absorb the output of the Engine alternator to work properly?
Yes. Start battery is always connected to Engine alternator.
The start battery will charged to 100% before the DC to DC charger kicks in. (it can be turned on manually)
I have a 110 volt AC battery charger onboard that does not do lithium so it is connected to the start battery and the DC to DC charger sees the start battery being charged when it is full, it charges to house battery with the correct charge profile.
Question 2: For the charging of the lithium battery —- What keeps the Start battery from becoming discharged while the DC to Dc converter is charging the Lithium battery when the engine isn’t running (say at night when there is no Solar generation)?
While the engine is running the voltage on the start battery will rise from 12.x to 14 as it reaches 100% and cannot accept more charge. Once the DC to DC sees that the voltage is 14 volts it waits 2 minutes and if voltage is still 14 volts it starts to charge the house battery. When engine is off the start battery voltage will fall when at 13.5 volts the DC to DC charger knows the engine is off and quits charging.

Solar should be connected directly to the lithium house battery with a proper solar charge controller.
Last edited by jimmy alonso on Sat Mar 12, 2022 4:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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