Water pump for sink. Advice?

[Highlander]

here,s what I done hope this helps



































the filter was mounted next to the pump



power on/off pump switch



this was my Mod pump is noisy tho lol

J

[OverEasy]

Hi BobGlass and Highlander!

Great idea with those blue water cubes BobGlass!
Our PO gave us a pair of those blue water cubes with Over Easy.
We haven’t really used them (as I’m a bit hesitant lugging about 32 lbs of water with my physical limitations) but this discussion thread has provided a bit of a rethink as we continue to prep for more extended out of slip travels. Why not use what we already have….?

Your galley sink really looks nice and also very functional Highlander.
Nice place to mount the convection toaster oven too!

Lemme run an idea past y’all…..
While we will likely stay with bottled water for drinking we don’t see any reason not to use the blue water cubes for cooking or wash up in some manner that doesn’t have me lugging them about or running a garden hose into the cabin to refill them.
So if we were to make a deck fitting to fill them and a top deck over the side vent for the overflow that would take care of the lugging about part.
We have a Mac26X and have a small imbalance to Port currently due to the dual batteries, modified galley (when stocked), 12 VDC Thermonic Cooler and Air Conditioner all being on that side for convenience. We only use the aft berth for storage (preferences being to use the fold down dinette and Vee berth for sleeping). So the space aft behind the head would be a good place for 32 to 64 lbs of fresh water as well as an equivalentish poundage of used wash water for counter balance. A gravity drain line could be run from the galley side under the cabin floor to some sort of grey water collector tank on the Starboard bilge space outside of the ballast transfer tube. (The grey water tank would be set up for dockside pump out or at home blow out.)
Now the blue water cubes could handle 10 or 15 psi of air pressure well enough but the thought came to mind that a small quiet centripetal pump could also work with one of those electric switch faucets (that our Very Nice PO gave to us)!
A possible pump is below:













This pump gives the option of running it as a submerged pump and looks like it could fit in through the blue water cube opening. This would allow us to not make any holes in the tanks.
The alternative is to make the holes and seal them with watertight gasketed fittings to have the pump outside the tanks.


Any thoughts?

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Wyb2]

I use a Whale Foot Pump that draws water from tanks I have under the V-berth (4 5 gallon jugs).
Works nicely and doesn't use juice, which is important to me.

Of course I had to run hosing which was a pain...and I do have to switch jugs when one runs out.
Trade offs trade offs....

The other advantage is it uses significantly less water. The difference between having to do something to get water (pump) vs having to do something to stop the water (reach over to the lever) is huge.

Whether or not that matters depends on your use case, but if you are ever trying to conserve water a 12v pump quickly goes from being a convenience to being an annoyance.

[OverEasy]

Trade offs trade offs....

The other advantage is it uses significantly less water. The difference between having to do something to get water (pump) vs having to do something to stop the water (reach over to the lever) is huge.

Whether or not that matters depends on your use case, but if you are ever trying to conserve water a 12v pump quickly goes from being a convenience to being an annoyance.

That is a great point Wyb2!
Especially with thinking about extended trips where there may be larger gaps between Marinas with pump out capabilities.

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Jimmyt]

...the thought came to mind that a small quiet centripetal pump could also work with one of those electric switch faucets (that our Very Nice PO gave to us)!

This pump gives the option of running it as a submerged pump and looks like it could fit in through the blue water cube opening. This would allow us to not make any holes in the tanks.
The alternative is to make the holes and seal them with watertight gasketed fittings to have the pump outside the tanks.

Any thoughts?

Best Regards
Over Easy

That pump will give you about 1 gal/min at 10 ft of head if my napkin scratch is correct. The curves and data don't mention NPSH, so I would probably vote for a submerged install to have the best chance of getting a reasonable flow out of the faucet. 10 ft isn't much to work with, so I'd want every bit of it available on the pressurized side of the pump.

Having said that, if I was going to be cooking with that water, I'd want a submersible pump that was graded for food use. If you are just washing hands and showering with it, that's not so much of an issue.

I'd probably run some numbers to make sure your tubing size, lift, and faucet would result in a reasonable flow using the curve for the pump. Looked at your profile and see that numbers are right up your alley.

The centrifugal pump will give you a quieter installation than the positive displacement, 30+psi "woodpecker on meth", that I used.

I would think you could go down to 1/2 gpm flow and still have adequate hand wash capability if you aren't in a hurry. Deck or anchor chain washdown will likely require a good bit more flow and pressure.

A Water-sense compliant faucet would flow =>0.8gpm at 20psi. Which means some bureaucrat, or his favorite lobbyist, decided you could adequately wash your hands at around 0.8gpm. The stock hand pump in the Mac would probably do 0.8gallons in 10 minutes if I was pumping it. .

By the time you get to the faucet, you'll be lucky to have 2-3psi with that pump (40-1250), after lift and tubing/fitting losses. I'm thinking that might be ok, though if the faucet doesn't have flow restrictors in it. Given the style, I'd be surprised.

I know you weren't asking me, but thought I'd throw this in the mix, anyway.

[OverEasy]

HI JimmyT!

Thanks for the input!
It’s always appreciated!
Great observations and thoughts!

Usage:
This would be only for the in-cabin water use at the galley and head sinks.
Not for a shower ( not gonna make that mod for a while )

Materials:
The housing is a glass reinforced nylon (PA66+Glass fiber) and the impeller isn’t specified but I assume it to be rubber like vinyl material.
Same housing material as used on several other diaphragmatic and piston type pumps so not too concerned about contamination.
The vinyl ‘tygon’ tubing is gonna be the bigger ‘taste’ factor for the water use aspect.

Low head & flow rate:
Yes, it’s kinda double edged sword.
The 10 ft head is three times the height of the galley and head sinks (about 3 feet) so the flow s/b about 2.5 to 4 L/Min which is ok.
S/b good enough for hand/face washing & shaving, pot filling for cooking and frugal clean up.
The not high flow rate is potentially an advantage in not using too much water unintentionally.
The low head pressure only on demand should help minimize the potential of system leaks vs an always pressurized approach.
The not high flow rate is potentially a pain in that it is gonna take time to fill a pot or wash basin. (But we’re on a motor/sailboat and nobody’s in a hurry right? )

Some head loss for fittings and line lengths can be mitigated with larger ID tubing & fittings. Figure 3/8 or 1/2 ID s/b okay.
The faucet we have from the PO is “valveless” in that it has an electrical button switch to momentarily turn on a pump so not much restriction.

Location of pump:
This is a bit we’re not quite sure on…. You’re right, need to do some more thinking on this….
Submerged in one of the blue water cubes would save space and avoid penetration of the tank (leak potential) but having the pump and wires in tank are contamination/cleaning concerns.
Plumbing the pump outside the tank is a layout space and leak concern.

Noise:
This is a concern.
We could hear the boat two slips away when we were in the Marina whenever they turned on their water pump at night.
Must have been a lot louder inside.
(Wouldn’t want to be waking my Admiral in the middle of the night if I can avoid that! )
Like your Woodpecker on Meth analogy!

Trade offs… Trade offs…. Trade offs….

Water Wash Down is gonna have to use outside water just from a practical carry perspective whether it be salt/brackish/fresh.

For now showers are gonna be at Marina facilities or just a rinse off with one of those solar hang bags or a garden sprayer tank up in the cockpit (no soap) which is gonna put a dent into the onboard carry capacity. .

Decisions…Decisions…. Glad we’re still up in NH as there is zero chance of our being able to do anything other than think about things with 18” of snow yesterday and the temp currently at 12 F headed to 0 F tonight. Brrrrrr….

Again, Thanks!

Best Regards
Over Easy

[Bobglas]

Cap on the blue water tanks have a faucet fitting which unscrews to reverse allowing the cap to seal. Not sure of the size of the threads but the hole allows a fitting for tubing to be inserted (after removing the faucet).

[topcat0399]

Here is a baseline of considerations and are a couple options…. For 12VDC powered pumps.

https://soundproofempire.com/quietest-rv-water-pump/

How about a virtually silent operating system?
This is Another option if you’re interested is making a simple pressurized water tank out of PVC pipe (4” or 6” diameter) end caps and related fittings such as tees, elbows, reducers, fill cap, barb fittings, a couple band clamps, tygon vinyl tubing and a threaded Schrader valve.
You fabricate it to fit your particular needs and available space.
You can also fabricate one out of black PVC pipe to mount to your mast as a portable solar hot water shower supply if desired.

You only need a small amount of air pressure to lift water to the sink or even up on deck from the side or bottom bilge spaces if desired. About 5 to 15 psi of air pressure should be more than sufficient with a hand air pump (small bicycle type is more than sufficient) periodically.
You don’t need much.
You can lead the pressurization line to just about any convenient location as you may desire with a flex line.
No electrical power requirements!
No switch mounting or wire routing!
No pump noise at all!

We’ve used similar systems in RVs since I was a kid!

Best Regards,
Over Easy

After skimming over (like nearly everything I read - sorry) this reply and on about the 3rd time
me 'ears visibly perk up and me eeyes audibly bulge out and I have resolved to study your methods sir.
Thankye

ps. kindly make my ignorance more obvious please, saves time for everybody..

[Jimmyt]

Like your Woodpecker on Meth analogy!

Best Regards
Over Easy

I stole that from RIS! I almost fell over when I read it in his post. It is the perfect description of what my pump sounds like.