26X Trailer

[Chip Hindes]

Some disconnect the babystays.

If you trailer exclusively, I believe it's extra time you don't need to spend. If you're "slipped", it's up to you but I have had the "opportunity" to drop the mast on the water three times in five years, and have been quite thankful to have the babystays connected up and ready to go.

In those same five years, my boat has been trailered three, slipped two, and mine have never been disconnected.

[Jack O'Brien]

Brian:

Some leave the baby stays always attached and some always detatch and some do sometimes and not other times (me). Some are able to leave the gin pole attached, swing it up and bungee it to the mast. Mine can't do this because it won't go close enough to the mast. Some think the baby stays are in the way and some appreciate the additional handhold. Like Burger King says: "Have it your way"

[ALX357]

'wonder why your gin-pole won't fold against the mast ?

....as for the bungee method of attachment, anything passed around the mast would be in the way of mainsail slides moving up and down. Alternate method; attach a smooth ring to the mast at the height where a swivel snap-shackle in the end of the gin pole can be clipped on, without any obstruction to the mainsail. Using the outer thru bolt that holds the two eye-straps to either side of the gin-pole, it is passed thru the swivel end of the snap-shackle. Just clips neatly to the mast whenever needed. Got to be careful when tacking to not drag (split infinitive) the Genoa over the end of the gin-pole, the stainless steel eye-straps, where the sail may get snagged or abraded in repeated use.

[Chip Hindes]

.'wonder why your gin-pole won't fold against the mast ?...as for the bungee method of attachment, anything passed around the mast would be in the way of mainsail slides moving up and down. Alternate method...

I put my gin pole in a vise and flattened the lower end slightly so it would fold up tightly against the mast. As you note, you can't pass a bungee all the way around the mast, but no need to add parts. I attach one end of the bungee to one babystay eye, wrap it around the pole a few times to take up the excess bungee, and attach the other end to the other eye. Simple, effective and free. I suppose a special short bungee could be in order, but I haven't felt the need, and it would violate my KISS rule. I have about a dozen bungees, all of which are exactly the same length and can be used in any location; If they're too long I just give them extra wraps.

[Jack O'Brien]

Well, Chip, I guess some guys just have a bigger pole than others!

I flattened the hull out of one side of my pole and it still won't swing up close enough. Maybe Roger cut costs with a smaller step plate on the 2000 model?

[ALX357]

i have the 2000 model too, and the pole folds up without having had to flatten anything.... i acutally have a thin line wrapped all around like whipping at the yoke, which pads the gin-pole and protects the deck from direct contact with the pole when it rests downward. That actually makes the pole fatter there. go figure ...
'Using quick-pins from BWY for the mast and for the gin-pole, (with ring-dings) .... maybe there is some extra play there ?? (note) the quick-pins are tethered together at the fixed-ring ends, so they won't roll away when one is removed .... only take one out at any one time.....

[ALX357]

Another suggestion i have which has allowed me to have the baby-stays as tight as they can be when the mast is up, to minimize swaying on the way up/down....
The mast becomes difficult to push to the step the last few inches and hold it there when the baby-stays are tight, but i use the boom vang tackle, (with snap-shackles on each end) the dumb end at the little stainless steel support loop of one of the the aft cabin-top stanchions, and the cam-cleat end at the mast's boom vang bail. You can move the mast forward to the step by hand, "hook" the mast base behind the gin-pole pin ( i always leave that in including when the gin pole is not there ) which retains the mast from sliding forward away from the step while you sit on it, or hold it down ... then pulling on the vang line with it's multiplied force will easily pull the mast aft into alignment with the holes for the quick-pin to be inserted.

[Jack O'Brien]

Faith and b'gorra me ladds - we got our tandem, aluminum trailer - sure, and a thing of beauty it is.

http://www.ace-trailers.com/pages/833970/index.htm This is the company that usually, but not lately, auctions a trailer on ebay every week. Terry said their identity had been stolen and they were talking with ebay about it.

This is a preliminary posting as I really don't know much about it yet. Got it last Wednesday, August 31, 2005 and hauled it and boat 200 miles home, mostly in the rain. Haven't had the boat off it yet and, for a while, I'm a bit too feeble to crawl around it much or under it. Later, I will post measurements and photos and more info.

Despite several folks saying Ace would not make a trailer for a Mac, they had agreed with me last November. Evidently, they made their first one for an X the week before mine for somebody in central, easten Florida? They wouldn't tell me who. That guy wanted a HIGHER trailer as he had a problem with his stern scraping because of a deep gutter in front of his house. They did not have his boat there but had "a bunch of paperwork" from the customer. They did not indicate anything else about it. I never saw it.

I wanted our X to sit as low as possible. They had to go to the wide axles (overall width 102 inches ? ) so the hull could sit between the rails. It has two long bunks extending all the way to the stern, quite far apart i.e. outside the stringers. Also has two front bunks at the bow. They couldn't use their normal cypress 3" x 8" ? as my stern bunks bend in the middle (6" x 2" not 2" x 6") so mine are pressure treated. It looks like the boat sits about 4" higher than on the Mac trailer, but I may be able to lower it 2". However, the tongue is a LOT longer so the boat will go farther into the water before the car does and the additional height may not matter.

Ace is two owners and a helper. They are not brimming over with information. I got ZERO paperwork for the trailer except a Certificate of Origin and a Bill of Sale / Invoice (which said only: (1) 24-26, 7,000 lb gvwr trailer; (2) sets SS disc brakes; Aprox wt 1107 lbs. and the VIN and TN. I got no warrantee for anything, no info sheets for anything. Ace advertises a 3-year warrantee and says if I have any problem all I need do is tell them the TN # and they will take care of it.

They had agreed to do a ladder, but tried to forget it until my wife called them on it, and they welded up a useable, ugly one at the last moment. I have the distinct impression it may be the last ladder they will do. I also have the impression they found this trailer more difficult than they had expected and the next one may cost more. It does not appear they have any interest in any discount and you take it or leave it, but I think they may be competitive. Supposedly, they now have the measurements needed to replicate one without the boat present - but I would not bet too much on that. On the other hand, this is not rocket science and they have much experience. One of the owners said he had been a supervisor or something at LoadMaster Trailer for some years.

The trailer towed home rock steady. There was in excess of 300 lbs tongue weight (my scale's maximum) and my ball was too low. But even at 70 MPH it stayed steady when semis passed in either direction on a two-lane highway. The Kodiak SS vented disc brakes seemed to work well.

The workmanship and materials look good and I am pleased as punch with the trailer.

But, a couple minor items. Although I got LED lights, the wiring connections are clip-on type with no water resistance. (I'm fixing that.) The lug bolts on one wheel are about a half inch longer than the other three wheels. No problem, but? The tires on one side were fully inflated, the other side half inflated. The lighting, while adequate, does not comply with federal law. I have only the two tail lamps and two amber side-looking markers mid-trailer. A 3-light I.D. bar (Tim said he had never heard of such) would not fit on the V-shaped, aft cross member anyway. Although I had a 5-conductor flat connector on car and old trailer and they installed a backing lock-out solenoid they provided only a 4-conductor connector and said I could stick the end of the wire from the solenoid into the hole in the car's connector. See: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/sta ... rpstr.html

I had taken the boat to them and left it there and they adjusted the trailer to fit, which looks good so far. They said the boat was heavier than I had said or they expected as their little forklift had more difficulty lifting it than most boats. I had left the mast, boom, and normal junk at home.

WARNING WARNING WARNING I had to change my 2" hitch ball to a 2 5/16" ball. The 2" ball that had pulled for 200 miles was LOOSE AS CAN BE. The nut and lock washer were still fully on but about half an inch loose. Although I have heard of this happening, who would expect it? The draw bar and ball are kept in the trunk, wrapped in rubber non-slip mat, when not towing.

[Frank C]

Lots of good info there Jack - thanks. Sounds like an extreme trailer. The max width of any standard, non-permitted vehicle on USA highways is 8.5 feet or 102". Even Greyhound buses need to be that or less.

Something confusing regarding the Kodiak brakes and lugs ... you mentioned SS brakes. All Kodiak's calipers are stainless, but not necessarily the rotors. In fact, the stainless rotors are $200 each or $800 for your rig! I'm wondering if you mean SS calipers over the silver-cad plated rotors .... are your hubs separate or integral with rotors?

Also, the full SS rotors are slip-on style, going over standard hubs. Therefore, those hubs require a slightly longer lug stud. Not sure how that may (may not) relate to your anomoly.

[DLT]

Obviously just guessing, but could that hub with the longer lugs be missing the rotor?

What did you pay?

Did I understand you to say that the wiring for the lights, on a boat trailer no less, was not waterproof? They really suggested just sticking the wire in the connector hole, for the lockout on the surge brakes?

I was really hoping they would become the supplier of choice, as I will be getting a replacement trailer at some point in the near future and really liked what I'd seen of their work...

[Jack O'Brien]

I specified "Kodiak 10" SS disc brakes" and presume I got the SS slip-on discs - they look shiney. Hopefully, I got 4 of them - I'll have to look. I paid an extra $700 for them over, I presume, the standard drum brakes. They mentioned an extra $300 per axle for the SS discs a month before the actual construction and said at construction time the price had gone up to $400 per axle but we split the difference. The LED lights were an extra $100. (I know I could have done it much cheaper myself but I wanted the whole thing warranteed.)

It is a good trailer and I would not let minor things like the wiring connectors, which are easily fixable, deter one from buying an Ace Trailer.

Terry mentioned about $2,300 last November for a basic trailer and in a January email he said: "Width is 72", the boat sits above the fenders." Then July 22 when I went there, materials prices had gone up and Tim quoted $3,700 based on verbal "druthers" from me and top-of-the-head prices from Tim. Everything was verbal. The detailed order I had filled out in July got lost and the pretty secretary let go. They evidently did not decide to go to the wide axles until after they started designing/making it but kept the same price. I had specified only a "spare tire mount" and was very pleased when they also provided a spare tire and wheel. My old trailer also had some mid-ship PVC goal posts and, lo-and-behold to my surprise, they put two sets of goal posts on the new one with no discussion.

Hurricane Katrina delayed delivery of axles and then assembly work on the trailer, and maybe they had some higher priorities, so what had been expected to take two days took ten - and I still had to wait while it got finished. I got the feeling that by the end they just wanted it to be done and me to be gone. I gathered they might have felt they put more into it, cost wise, than they expected when Tim quoted a price a month earlier.

[Chip Hindes]

Hey, Jack. Will be interested to see the photos.

Sounds to me like any other takers ought to make sure everyting discussed is chiselled in stone; i.e., a written contract.

It's not clear, are you saying you paid $3700? I probably have close to that in the value of a new original trailer plus the mods I've done on mine, though by the time I got around to the mods my trailer was worth considerably less.

On the other hand, seems to me full legal lighting and a plug sufficient to power all the trailer circuits ought to be a minimum standard for a brand new $3700 trailer, regardless of what a great deal you believe you got on other aspects of the trailer. Been there, though; at some point in the heat of the moment, such minor annoyances begin to seem like nickel and dime, are not worth the argumant and can be overlooked when you're also in a hurry to get on the road for home, and the alternative is to leave it for another trip and later pickup while they fix the problems.

Curious, did you get aluminum wheels as well? I was considering them for my trailer but they would have added another $300 or so and I was told besides, they don't hold up to salt sater even as well as the standard white painted ones, and that cheaper (than aluminum) galvies are the best.

[Frank C]

I specified "Kodiak 10" SS disc brakes" and presume I got the SS slip-on discs - they look shiney. Hopefully, I got 4 of them - I'll have to look. I paid an extra $700 for them over, I presume, the standard drum brakes. They mentioned an extra $300 per axle for the SS discs a month before the actual construction and said at construction time the price had gone up to $400 per axle but we split the difference.

That sounds correct for Kodiak SS rotors - extra $175 per wheel, plus the cost of the necessary dumb hub. This image from Kodiak shows a stainless rotor on left and the carbon steel cheapie at right. The integral hub is the distinguishing feature - Stainless is only available as a slip-over.

... Silver cadmium plating offers the best value of protection for salt water applications (i.e., during a standard salt spray test, rust will begin forming between 400 and 600 hours).

... All stainless steel offers the ultimate corrosion protection in salt water marine applications (i.e., negligible rust will form during a 1000 hour standard salt spray test).

And regarding Calipers
At a minimum, all Kodiak caliper castings and caliper mounting brackets are e-coated with options for silver cadmium plating or an all stainless steel product.

Note: On a stainless steel caliper, all parts are stainless steel except for the fittings, which are brass, and the backing plate on the friction pads, which are zinc plated carbon steel.

As in another thread, I'd also credit "prop-guy-Robert" for the advice on Kodiak as THE provider of premium trailer brakes. Kodiak calipers use stainless guide bolts (with thread lockers), stainless sleeves for the guide bolts, extra-large stainless pistons, and (as described above) the caliper itself is available as an e-coated casting, or fully stainless ... I wouldn't have known the importance of these features except for recent reports of trials/tribulations with Tiedown disc brake products.

[Beam's Reach]

I leave the baby stays on as well. Beam's Reach has been in the water for 6 weeks now, I've never bothered to remove them or the mast raising system. As mentioned, more to hold onto when you're up top. I wrap a bungee tightly around the mast raising pole and the mast down low below the boom. Works fine.

[Jack O'Brien]

Chip:

Yes, I paid $3,700 total. Will pay sales tax here in Palm Beach County when I register it.

No, I did not get aluminum wheels. Their standard is galvanized spoke wheels, with trailer service bias tires ST205/75D14 6PR load range C, 1760 lbs at 50 psi. I saw the fenders shaking while towing and plan to have the wheels/tires balanced some time when the boat is in the water.

The federal regs for lighting for a trailer over 80" wide don't make a lot of sense here. The 3-light ID bar is mounted at the very top (of a semi-trailer) per regulation. Only place on a boat trailer is at the very bottom, where the stern hides it, and with a V cross member it won't fit without the ends hanging out below the cross member where they will be vulnerable to damage. The required, red, rear-facing, marker lights at the widest part would be only a few inches wider than the tail lamps - why bother? The required, amber, forward-facing marker lights at the widest part would be only a few inches wider than the existing side marker lights which, although mounted on the frame so they are side-facing, also shine forward enough to serve the purpose. The only REAL deficiency on my trailer is the required, amber, marker light/reflector at the tongue. I like the idea of widest, amber forward-facing marker lights as a safety factor, so I have ordered a set of (4) amber 6-LED lamps on ebay for $24 including s&h, which I will mount on the fenders and the tongue. West Marine wants $14 for a side marker LED lamp.

To "waterproof" the wiring connectors for the tail lamps I remove the clip-ons and use non-insulated butt connectors, crimped on, with dielectric grease on the bare wires, and the whole mess sealed with heat-shrink tubing. For the side markers where I don't want to cut the main wires, I can open a butt connector, slip it over the wires, crimp it and use heat-shrink tubing. I may use some "liquid electrical tape" also. I cut off their 4-conductor plug and used my old 5-conductor plug for the trip home.