Ballast Water Question

Tripper · Post by **Tripper** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 2:32 am

Hi,
I'm new to the site and find it very informative.
I have an X and keep it on a swing mooring on a lake. I am concerned about the ballast water freezing in the tank.Although the lake never freezes it reaches air temperatures of around -5deg C. what are the chances of the ballast water freezing as it is confined to the ballast tank.
I do not want to leave the boat witout ballast due to less windage.

Thanks.

aya16 · Post by **aya16** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:22 am

wouldnt pouring some enviro safe antifreeze in there work? or maybe a quart of vodka?

macsailor · Post by **macsailor** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:40 am

would you not nd to fill the tank with RV antifreeze to work?. Mixed with water would dilute it I would think.Last time I bought it I think it was around $3-$4 a gallon.

macsailor · Post by **macsailor** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:40 am

would you not need to fill the tank with RV antifreeze to work?. Mixed with water would dilute it I would think.Last time I bought it I think it was around $3-$4 a gallon.

Randy Smith · Post by **Randy Smith** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:36 am

If the water isn't freezing, then the ballast should be fine. It would be best to get some environmentally friendly antifreeze.........I have also used salt......5 borden cannisters(engineers on site here likely can figure saline levels better) and you have a good brine that will hold up to quite a bit of cold....kills anything in the tank too...........I have only had my boat out for one winter since 96.......I do have a slip with heat....one winter when I lived aboard, the power was on and off, so I was really worried...used salt and had no problem....it was so cold, I could walk around the boat while she was slipped; I did hang onto the lines while moving though, not that dumb, that time anyway......

Randy

DLT · Post by **DLT** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:58 am

Randy Smith wrote:If the water isn't freezing, then the ballast should be fine.

I agree with this. Actually, the ballast water is encased on fiberglass, and is therefore at least somewhat insulated, which cannot be said for the lake water.

The only thing the lake water has going for it is motion, from wind induced waves/ripples, which also inhibits freezing. But, the boat is likely rocking enough to account for that...

Remember that anything you put in the tank has to come out at some point. Therefore, I'd be very hesitant to put anything in there that I would mind swimming in. So, any type of antifreeze is out of the question, at least for me. Now, I don't mind swimming in salt water, but I some of the fish you might like to catch could have issues with that... Of course, some minimal amount would likely not present a problem... Even so, I probably wouldn't do it...

Jeff S · Post by **Jeff S** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:06 pm

Unless the antifreeze is not poisonous I think it would be illegal in the US to empty it in anything but a receptacle and treated as hazardous waste.

I think the water in the ballast takes more to freeze due to the air in the cabin being slightly less cold than the air on the surface of the lake. Having said that the lake moves and ballast does not- making the ballast more likely. Also the lake has more water to absorb energy making it less likely to freeze. Adding all these factors together... I am not sure.

I found a small crack in my ballast tank that started a slow leak into the bilge. I couldn't pinpoint an event that may have caused it, but it is possible that the water froze and then expanded at which point the ballast gave at a weaker point. Not sure on this- just a possibility.

I think if you filled your ballast partway and checked on it after a freezing spell (put something in the vent hole to test the state of the water in the bilge) would give you the answer. This way the water would have space to expand.

Jeff S

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 5:21 pm

I sure would not put any anti-freeze in there, nor would I leave it untreated. It seems pretty obvious that a couple boxes of salt are cheap, environmentally neutral, & prolly very effective.

jetta01 · Post by **jetta01** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 6:05 pm

The RV water system anti-freeze you can get at your local Wal-Mart is harmless. Any RV'r in a cold area has winterized with it and then you end up drinking some of it the next season because it will never all come out. However, as mentioned above, if the lake isn't freezing then don't worry about the boat.

Mark Karagianis · Post by **Mark Karagianis** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:06 pm

Although this is slightly off-topic, we noticed odor problems and pressure build-up if the vent and the fill valve were closed, and worse odor and even mold if the forward vent was left open. Maybe this is because the salt water bacteria go crazy when the air temperature is 100 degrees+ for weeks at a time (my M lives on its trailer on my driveway in the San Fernando Valley). I've started throwing a swimming pool 3" chlorine tablet into the fill valve occasionally before I launch. Now my bilge smells "fresh".

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:32 pm

Be careful about swimming pool chlorine tablets. They work by producing gaseous chlorine and are not designed to function in a closed, pressurized system. I would not put one in my ballast tank with the valve and vent both closed. You don't want to operate with the fill valve partially open, and you certainly don't want it venting into the interior of the boat, so I guess I'm saying don't do it.

I literally exploded my pool filter housing by closing both the inlet and outlet side valves with a chlorine tablet in between. A pretty spectacular and expensive mistake. Fortunately I was about 50 yards away when it went off like a cannon shot. I was downwind and the chlorine smell was nearly overpowering. The ballast tank is considerably larger and perhaps the pressure wouldn't build up fast enough to do any damage, but I don't think I'd take a chance.

Randy Smith · Post by **Randy Smith** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 7:21 am

Wow Chip, I didn't know about the gas build up.....there are smaller tablets available, 1"....I would go much smaller following Chips comment, if I did it at all......

When I had Cancer and my plumbing was diconnected, ...well, lets just say I know pharmacies have little bleach pills in the stoma department.....

Randy

Sloop John B · Post by **Sloop John B** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:44 am

Freezing temperatures shouldn't cause any worry, but, there are those certain rare times when the mercury drops out of the bottom of the thermometer. I can remember walking to school in MN with my eyes froze open.

The water in your ballast will freeze and expand considerably and crack it open. even with the vent left open. That will be the least of your concerns because the lake ice will crush your hull like a plastic toy.

There must be some place you can park the Mac on its trailer.

cuisto · Post by **cuisto** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:15 am

Maybe I'm not understanding the problem...
Is there any reason you cant just empty the ballast tank when you are not sailing?

Terry · Post by **Terry** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:31 am

After reading what Sloop wrote, I would not leave my boat in a lake where air temperatures dropped to -5C. The lakes here on the wet west coast never freeze, so to speak, either. Never the less, in my 53 years of living here I have seen the local lakes freeze over enough for ice skating on two occasions. Twice in that many years may seem to qualify as never freezing but one never knows when a freak climatic change is going to strike. I read about them happening somewhere in the world every year. I would say that -5C ambient air temperature is borderline for a freak freeze over and would not take the chance. I would not be surprised if insurance companies blamed the owner for personal negligence. Get it out of the water in the winter, you live in Canada not Mexico.

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Ballast Water Question

Ballast Water Question

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