Docking with adverse wind

[Catigale]

Your fins actually hurt you when current is the main force acting on your boat...but you do need them down for control..

Bring your CB/DB up,maybe just use one rudder to keep the side force down

THe real tricky dock on my old slip is when you were heavy wind on approach, then heavy current right at the dock, with no wind!!

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

I tie the ends of my bow line and my stern line together.
When I get off the boat onto the pier I can control the front and the back of the boat.

[Jim Cate]

Looks like some real good ideas for helping with the problem noted. But I'm curious as to Jim's original post. He said he "loosened the bow line and reversed the motor with the wheel turned hard to starboard (away from the dock) ........" In that situation, wouldn't you turn the wheel hard to port to bring the stern in (when in reverse)???? Or does torque, or something else come into play?

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. To clarify my situation, we have a launching area with one large dock or pier located on our port as we return, and in this case, the wind was across the pier from my port side. On reflection, I think that the idea of first securing the stern, and then motoring forward at idle with the wheel turned to port (toward the dock), may be the most convenient approach. I have tried a harness between the bow and stern, and it does help handling the boat while single-handed and moving it down the dock, but it makes things somewhat complicated (I left the bow and stern lines in place also) and seems to get tangled with the fenders, which also must be on the port side.

Regarding the above-quoted comment from Mallard questioning why I turned the wheel to starboard (away from the dock) instead of port after securing the bow, remember that I was in reverse at this time, so the motor was pulling the stern toward the dock.

Louis, I did notice the nice, highly decorated 26X in my old space. Regarding the 4th, I understand lots of skippers are planning to anchor near the fireworks for a good view. I was a little reticent to be out after dark with all the traffic expected for the fireworks. I also understand that we have a good chance of showers that day, which is another consideration.

Jim

[Craig LaForce]

When my fins hurt, I rub some tuna helper on them.

[mallardjusted]

Jim,

That does confuse me - turning the wheel to starboard, motor in reverse. I just bought my X a few weeks back and haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. But in my previous larger boat, Bayliner 2655 single screw Mercruiser, to get the stern to dock as noted I would turn the wheel to left while in reverse. I guess I'm just trying to figure out why it is different with the Mac. Is it the effects of the rudder or centerboard that changes how the stern would be kicked to port instead of starboard??? Sorry ..... I'm just trying to get it straight before I actually use my boat!

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Jim,

I'd strongly advise you not to secure the stern first then motor forward. You will have very little leverage from the motor to bring the bow in. In a wind of any strength this will not work. Next thing you know you will be swung out with the motor and prop up against the dock. There is a lot of windage in the bow of a mac. Just attaching a short stern spring is asking for a big trouble.

Any spring line method (which is what you are trying to do) requires at least a 1/2 boat length of line as the spring to develope the needed leverage to move the boat. They also work far better if the line is attached to the dock beside the boat rather than ahead or behind the boat. I strongly urge you to use the forward spring I descibed. It works like a charm. I used it last weekend against a 4 knot current running across the dock. It just sucked the boat right in smooth as can be.

If you are concerned about going to the bow and back when alone I'd suggest this. The same spring line will work almost as well from midships.

1. Put you dockline around the port winch. (These work just as well as a midship cleat although the are a tad further astern than ideal.)

2. Approach the dock and secure your first line. Leave enough length so the dock cleat will lie just a bit astern when tight to the dock. Just loop the line around the cleat and secure it back at the winch. This can be done quickly from the cockpit without going forward or exiting the boat.

3. Then motor forward at Idle with the wheel turned hard to the right. This will swing the stern right in and hold the boat tight to the dock while you hop out and go forward to secure the rest of your lines.

Read up and practice spring line use and all those watching the great sport of docking will think you have super voodoo powers.

[argonaut]

The spring line method sounds like it's effective, but is this a good singlehanding technique? I switched to using Bill's single "handling line" technique after a bass fisherman recommended it and it's possible to motor up and drop that line over a cleat while sitting in the cockpit, then you have freedom to hop up on the dock and extend the line fore and aft adding a few turns to snug things up. It's easier for me also using a single line as I walk the boat up to the trailer.

[LOUIS B HOLUB]

...some real good docking tips in this thread I've always used the "single line" tied on to the aft and bow. Works real good controlling the boat while walking it along the pier also.

Allegro's idea sounds interesting. Ive never tried that method, but plan to do so.

If only I could parallel park my Mac-X as well as my vehicles...sigh. Its those dog-gonned jitters when docking near ( or next to ) a $150,000. tri hull boat with its crew looking on. But I shouldnt feel too intimidated, I saw a crew member of a pricey tri hull jump in the water and "hand tow" the rig to the dock because of docking difficulties...

[Frank C]

Agree w/argonaut, Louis and others that the long-line offers terrific flexibility for single-handing. Besides that, dock cleats (in my area) are NEVER placed where I could take advantage of the springs that I see drawn in the books.

Tying up to our guest dock last week I had to "parallel park" btw two other boats in about 35 feet. The only two cleats were at each end of the open space, and already had lines wrapped by the two other boats.

Fortunately a friendly dockmate caught my bow rail as I came in at 45 deg. I had no choice but to cleat my docklines atop those already there, and nowhere to attach any spring line. When I returned, the other boats were gone and both of my lines had been neatly re-cleated after their respective departures.
Guess that means I "met" THREE friendly yachties!

[Divecoz]

Agree w/argonaut, Louis and others that the long-line offers terrific flexibility for single-handing. Besides that, dock cleats (in my area) are NEVER placed where I could take advantage of the springs that I see drawn in the books.

Tying up to our guest dock last week I had to "parallel park" btw two other boats in about 35 feet. The only two cleats were at each end of the open space, and already had lines wrapped by the two other boats.

Fortunately a friendly dockmate caught my bow rail as I came in at 45 deg. I had no choice but to cleat my docklines atop those already there, and nowhere to attach any spring line. When I returned, the other boats were gone and both of my lines had been neatly re-cleated after their respective departures.
Guess that means I "met" THREE friendly yachties!

I too had some problems this weekend with the wind But as FrankC found . . .so did I , several boaters mostly power boat guys came over as soon as they saw me getting close to the finger . They knew the wind would play heck with such a big boat and just one small 50 hp bf to push it around . Great guys one and all. Seems everyone I have meet so far has been very nice , helpful and even respectful . . . more than I had really expected. But the winds was bad, nothing for wind BTW while we were on the big water, that's why all the sail boats came back in . . . and the rain oh yes the rain too. I had rudders down but not D.B. should I drop that too? I have plenty of room . I ended up backing in that was as has been said easier. But in that position I have to leave the motor in the water and the rudders down as well . I am going back up tomorrow to bring her around and bring the motor and rudders up . . . .after a day of sailing I hope ... Oh almost forgot I also recieved several Hales from Big Sail Boats . . . Hey MacGregor you look good ///Is she new /// if we're racing I want to see the motor way up hahahaha Seemed like a very good group . 1500 boats at this Marina BTW.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

As long as you have the depth keep both rudders down and your daggerboard/centerboard at least half way if not all the way down. One of the nice things with an X is you can choose the pivot point by how far you put the centerboard down. Part way keeps it more aft while full down gives you a narrow section forward you can spin the boat around.

Remember though, if you are not moving neither the rudders or centerboard will have much impact. At best they add slightly more sideways drag slowing your drift down when the wind is from the side. They have to have water moving across them to generate any turning effect. They can even make things worse if it not wind, but a counter current that you are fighting. In that case you are better off with fins up.

[Jim Cate]

[quote="Duane Dunn, Allegro"]Actually you almost did the exact right thing faced with the wind setting you off the dock. You used a spring line of sorts.

Give the description of your situation here is the true spring line method to use. I'm assuming you will end up port side to the dock in the description below. Reverse the sides for a Starboard tie.

• 1. Approach the dock bow first. Make sure you are well fendered particularly forward of midships.
  
  2. Get a line from the bow cleat to a dock cleat that will lie amidships when you are parked where you want to be (the easiest is just a loop around the dock cleat that runs back to the bow cleat). Allow enough line to reach from this amidships position to the bow. Don't worry if the stern drifts away some.
  
  3. Once you have the line in place, power slowly forward with the wheel turned hard to starboard. The boat will go forward only until the bow line goes tight. Then the only movement the boat can make will bring the stern right back to the dock. You can even leave the motor in idle forward as you step off and secure the stern. The boat will stay perfectly in place while you secure it.

You can use this method to parallel park your boat in a really tight space between two other boats.

Also a variant can be use to get your boat away from the dock when boats are tight in front and behind or the wind has you pinned to the dock. Set the same forward spring. ( Again just a loop on the dock cleat then back to the bow cleat with a 30' dock line. This lets you slip the line when clear and it will just run free of the dock cleat.) Power forward against the spring with the motor turned hard to port. This will force the stern away from the dock. (Make sure you fender well forward as it will bring the bow into the dock. ) Once the stern is clear of the obstacle behind and you are at a good angle to the dock reverse away.

Spend some time practicing with spring lines and you will soon look like a wizard around the docks. I find the biggest challenge is to have the helpers handling the line on the dock understand how and where you want it most just stand there and hold it or immediately try and pull you in too tight and tie it. You are best off to have them loop it around a cleat and give the end back to you to secure.

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Well, I think both methods (yours and Craigs) would work, but I still think it would be more convenient to secure the stern first, since I could do that easily from the cockpit. I think that leaving three or four feet of extra line at the stern would be sufficient to power forwardly with wheel hard to port, to keep the bow against the dock, thefore permitting me to walk forwardly to the bow docking line, either on the boat or on the dock. (The Macs are very maneuverable with the rudders and motor down and egaged, and can turn quite sharply, far more than a conventional discplacement boat with a single rudder and fixed prop..)

Actually, of course, I haven't tried either approach, so that's the next step. (To put it in perspective, this is the only time in some two years that I have had any problem approaching and tying up to the dock.)

Tell you what, Duane. - How about my agreeing to try both your and Craig's methods, and you agreeing to try the Craig method (securing the stern first, leaving a few feet of slack to permit a limited spring line effect, and then motoring forward with the wheel turned to port. - Then we, and anyone else who wants to give it a try, can come back and report on our respective experiences.

Jim



Incidentally, regarding my turning the wheel to starboard when in reverse after securing the bow with some slack (about four feet), I have looked at it more carefully and think I was wrong after all and should instead have held the wheel straight or turned to port. It's also possible that I'm not recalling the matter correctly, - Sorry for the confusion.

[Divecoz]

I tie the ends of my bow line and my stern line together.
When I get off the boat onto the pier I can control the front and the back of the boat.

Thats our problem Bill . Audrey say's it was seven Lads a leaping . . .The 8 Maids were milking so shes NOT leaping from the boat to the pier. . .

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Here are a couple other handy things that can help you avoid the big leap to the dock.

http://www.boatshowproducts.com/EZDocker.htm

http://www.dockinghook.com/

We liked the EZ Docker a lot, but I felt it's way over priced (we tried it at the boat show one year). I simply cut up a tube on 45 degree mitre angles and welded up our own version. I welded a ring to the end and tied on a dock line. Wrap it in some plactic tape and it works every bit as good as the expensive original product. My wife, who is the bow person finds it useful getting that first line to the dock when the conditions prohibit me from easily coasting up to the dock. It's a great way to set that first spring line.

She does however often make the big step. She usually is all the way forward at the pulpit where on our X the lifeline is very low. I'll bring the boat in at an angle that matches the bow angle. Just as we get near the dock she steps off and I turn hard to bring the boat parallel where I can step out of the cockpit. She's learned to keep the bow a bit slack to allow the cockpit to come fully over to the dock.

My whole crew is very in tune to docking. Last summer we were entering Blakely Marina in the San Juans. It's a small marina with tight spaces. As usual our guess of which side the slip we had been assigned over the radio was wrong. Once we saw the target everyone smoothly went into action. My wife swapped the forward fender sides, my oldest son switched the dingy from port to starboard while I handled the aft lines and fender. In a matter of seconds we were ready for the approach. I swung right, reversed to a stop and then backed to port for the approach. Just as we were nearing the right position at the dock and a burst of forward was called for to arrest our motion the old 2 stoke died (it hates to run at low idle). With no time to re-start, we all sprang over the side to the dock, looped cleats and pulled the boat to a stop just as the dingy motor came to rest 3" from the dock behind. Calm and cool, the whole docking looked like it was poetry in motion.


Jim,

I'm not saying Craigs method doesn't work. Aft springs have their use in many situations and I have used them with success before.

All I'm saying is a forward quarter spring will give you more leverage in the situation you describe than you will ever get from the aft spring. It's simple physics. In light to medium wind you will probably succeed with the aft spring as long as you don't let the bow drift too far away. In strong winds you'll find you can't get the leverage needed to bring the bow in.

The aft spring counts on your being able to bring the bow back to the dock by pushing against what amounts to a 3' lever (the horizontal distance from the aft cleat to the prop). When the line goes tight you are now rotating the boat around the aft cleat which is the pivot point. This small lever is not very strong at low speed and will be over matched in higher winds by the windage of the bow.

The forward quarter spring just simply gives you a better mechanical advantage as you will have a 25' lever to work with (the length from the bow cleat to the prop). With the motor turned hard starboard the prop is driving the stern right to the dock with all it's thrust against this much larger lever. You are rotating the boat around the bow cleat which is now fixed as the pivot point by the spring. You will find no matter how hard the wind is blowing you will always be able to get the stern back to the dock.

In a really strong cross wind you can even approach nose to the wind at a 90 degree angle to the dock. Get a line around a cleat and fall back with about 12' of line from the bow to the dock. Turn hard starboard and motor back at the dock. The boat will swing right and suck itself right up snug to the dock. I've done this a number of times.

Usually the person who grabs the line helping from the dock has no knowledge of springs and thinks you are crazy. Ignore their perplexed look, instruct them to secure the line as you ask, the execute the spring approach. They will be amazed and spend the next 10 minutes pumping you for docking wizdom.


Frank C.,

Try the spring, it will parallel park you slick as a whistle in the space you describe.

[NautiMoments]

I will tie my stern & bow lines together and hop of the boat when it is calm. When there is wind or current perpendicular to the dock pushing you away I alway use the system Duane described if possible. Your bow is trapped and cannot go anywhere and the motor will push the stern in. With the stern the stern rope system a gust or strong wind could push your bow away from the dock and once you are past a certain point no amount of power is going to bring your bow back. Been there - done that.