Actually there is one boat that I can sail circles around, and that's a Cape Dory. It carries a phrf of 290 at our club. My M is now at 235. I'm not winning with that phrf, but with experience and upgrades and about 240-250 for a phrf,I'm pretty sure that I can win. The other 235 vessels like Catalina 25's and hunters are much more experienced sailors than me, and i'm not really discouraged yet.normo wrote:... but the boat will always be in the mid 300 PHRF class.
Discouraged Going Up Wind, Close hauled, Cannot Point
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Richard O'Brien
- Captain
- Posts: 653
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:20 am
- Location: Lakewood, CO. Mercury 60hp bigfoot M0427B404
Any Experienced Mac Owners in the Toronto Area
Thanks again for all our suggestions, I ll be looking at my rig this week, tuning it and checking the Mast Rake.
Any good Mac Owners in the Toronto area, that are willing to help me out, and make a little extra money at the same time...
Thanks
Ed Radonic
Any good Mac Owners in the Toronto area, that are willing to help me out, and make a little extra money at the same time...
Thanks
Ed Radonic
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Duane Dunn, Allegro
- Admiral
- Posts: 2459
- Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2004 6:41 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: Bellevue, Wa '96 26x, Tohatsu 90 TLDI and Plug In Hybrid Electric drive
- Contact:
I'd also suggest going back you your dealer and having him check your setup. If I'd just dropped 60k on a boat I'd expect on the water tuning from the dealer. You should be able to explain your problems and if they're any good they will know how to correct the rig. Our dealer here in the northwest includes on the water setup, and sailing introduction as part of the sale. Most good ones have seen every problem and know how to correct them.
It sounds to me like too much mast rake. You'll need to slack both the uppers and lowers, tighten up the headstay to get a more vertical mast, then re-tune the uppers, then lowers in that order for mast bend and side to side alignment.
To understand mast rake look to a windsurfer. They have no rudder to steer. You steer by tilting the mast forward and backward. Tilt it backward and the board will turn it's nose into the wind as the CG moves aft of the centerboard. Tilt it forward, moving the CG ahead of the centerboard and the boat will turn away from the wind.
Mast rake will have the same effect on a mac. With the mast tilted too far back you will constantly round up and get stuck in irons. They factory rake recommendation is on the too much rake side of optimum as having the boat round up in a gust is a safer behavior for a novice sailor.
It sounds to me like too much mast rake. You'll need to slack both the uppers and lowers, tighten up the headstay to get a more vertical mast, then re-tune the uppers, then lowers in that order for mast bend and side to side alignment.
To understand mast rake look to a windsurfer. They have no rudder to steer. You steer by tilting the mast forward and backward. Tilt it backward and the board will turn it's nose into the wind as the CG moves aft of the centerboard. Tilt it forward, moving the CG ahead of the centerboard and the boat will turn away from the wind.
Mast rake will have the same effect on a mac. With the mast tilted too far back you will constantly round up and get stuck in irons. They factory rake recommendation is on the too much rake side of optimum as having the boat round up in a gust is a safer behavior for a novice sailor.
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Chip Hindes
- Admiral
- Posts: 2166
- Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:13 am
- Location: West Sand Lake, NY '01X, "Nextboat" 50HP Tohatsu
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Night Sailor
- Admiral
- Posts: 1007
- Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:56 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26X
- Location: '98, MACX1780I798, '97 Merc 50hp Classic, Denton Co. TX "Duet"
boat balance
Chip brings up another issue. With a lot of crusing or comfort items on board the weight needs to be distributed well fore and aft, side to side. If the boat is exceptionally heavy in either end, it will perform like a dog, if at all. Make sure you see the same amount of hull beneath the bootstrip all the way around the boat.
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LOUIS B HOLUB
- Admiral
- Posts: 1315
- Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:40 am
- Location: 1999 Mac-X, Nissan 50 HP, Kemah, TX, "Holub Boat"
Also, 60K CAD is about $53k US. But, that's still quite a load of options...[/quote]
No kidding...
Reminds me of a Mac M in my Marina... built in generator, built in A/C, forward & aft. depth finders, GPS, refrig., etc. And he rents slips at two marinas, one is a Mast Up, and the other is for overnighting...Its a real nice equipped boat...and they have great fun with it...
No kidding...
Reminds me of a Mac M in my Marina... built in generator, built in A/C, forward & aft. depth finders, GPS, refrig., etc. And he rents slips at two marinas, one is a Mast Up, and the other is for overnighting...Its a real nice equipped boat...and they have great fun with it...-
mtc
- Captain
- Posts: 545
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:06 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Panama City Beach, Florida 05 M 'Bellaroo' 60hp Merc BF
I've sailed a variety of keel boats, some Js and a few trimarans. The M simply isn't one of them.
You really should start from scratch. Check all the rigging, all the angles, balance your sail plan, re-distribute your gear - remove what you don't absolutely need for the race and try again.
As for your 'instructor', no doubt he was embarassed that even he couldn't get your boat to point. His first conclusion should have been that there was a balance problem.
But it's hard to think clearely when your pride is injured.
The M's a great sail boat. Tender, qurky, but perfect!
Michael
You really should start from scratch. Check all the rigging, all the angles, balance your sail plan, re-distribute your gear - remove what you don't absolutely need for the race and try again.
As for your 'instructor', no doubt he was embarassed that even he couldn't get your boat to point. His first conclusion should have been that there was a balance problem.
But it's hard to think clearely when your pride is injured.
The M's a great sail boat. Tender, qurky, but perfect!
Michael
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RandyMoon
- Captain
- Posts: 779
- Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:05 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26M
- Location: Rockwall, TX Lake Ray Hubbard 2005M #0690 L405 Tohatsu TLDI 90 (Rhapsody in Blue)
If you could ever get some photos of that, I'm sure lots of people here would like to see how those things were done.LOUIS B HOLUB wrote:Reminds me of a Mac M in my Marina... built in generator, built in A/C, forward & aft. depth finders, GPS, refrig., etc. And he rents slips at two marinas, one is a Mast Up, and the other is for overnighting...Its a real nice equipped boat...and they have great fun with it...
sail plan and boat balance
This website is full of well writtten information on sail plan and boat balance . See the chapter 11 to find the proper subject. www.catamaranvega.com/vega/sailing/contents.html 
I think this will help to balance your boat before sailing and during sailing
I think this will help to balance your boat before sailing and during sailing
60K CAD or 53K US MACGREGOR
Well you are right about it being about $53,000 US.
I purchased it brand new, The dealer gave me alist of possible options for the boat, I checked all of them, then added more he did not have.
Usually the sales man tries to talk you into options, this sales guy was trying to talk me out of options. I wanted him to convince me I did not need a certain option. He said, well you don't need this item, becase you are already paying for it in the package above.
Here are just a few that I can remember. 50HP Honda, Full Enclosure Canvas, Dodger, Transition, Bimini, Windows and Bug nets all around, That was $ 5,500 alone. Stern Seats, $ 1,200, Two gas tanks total of 110 L of fuel, thats over 200lbs of fuel. Garmin large screen GPS with Sonars, and plotter, Ray Marine Auto Pilot, Wind Indicator, DSC VHF, with Ram mic in the cock pit, All the cushions you can buy with a Mac, spair VHF hand held, Shore Power 30 AMP, with a heavy Cable, Large Genoa with UV sun Strip, all the sail covers, Easy Jack Lines, Solar Vents, Down Below, DVD Player, Fridge, Microwave with build in Toaster Oven, Portable BBQ, Stero System, and yes I do have a 5000BTU air conditioner all served by 110Volt Service, with 1500 Watt inverter, 12 AMP supplied with 6 Batteries, I can run the microwave for hours without running out of power offshore. Batter Charger, that charges 3 banks of batteries rapidly. These are just some of things I can think of, off the top of my head.
And yes I would like to race, just for fun, I don't care if I come in last, but would like to at least round the first mark, or at least get to the start line.
I purchased it brand new, The dealer gave me alist of possible options for the boat, I checked all of them, then added more he did not have.
Usually the sales man tries to talk you into options, this sales guy was trying to talk me out of options. I wanted him to convince me I did not need a certain option. He said, well you don't need this item, becase you are already paying for it in the package above.
Here are just a few that I can remember. 50HP Honda, Full Enclosure Canvas, Dodger, Transition, Bimini, Windows and Bug nets all around, That was $ 5,500 alone. Stern Seats, $ 1,200, Two gas tanks total of 110 L of fuel, thats over 200lbs of fuel. Garmin large screen GPS with Sonars, and plotter, Ray Marine Auto Pilot, Wind Indicator, DSC VHF, with Ram mic in the cock pit, All the cushions you can buy with a Mac, spair VHF hand held, Shore Power 30 AMP, with a heavy Cable, Large Genoa with UV sun Strip, all the sail covers, Easy Jack Lines, Solar Vents, Down Below, DVD Player, Fridge, Microwave with build in Toaster Oven, Portable BBQ, Stero System, and yes I do have a 5000BTU air conditioner all served by 110Volt Service, with 1500 Watt inverter, 12 AMP supplied with 6 Batteries, I can run the microwave for hours without running out of power offshore. Batter Charger, that charges 3 banks of batteries rapidly. These are just some of things I can think of, off the top of my head.
And yes I would like to race, just for fun, I don't care if I come in last, but would like to at least round the first mark, or at least get to the start line.
Just ordered High Perf Rudders and Dagger board from IDA
Well add another $ 1,000 to the cost of my MAC, thats in USD.
I just ordered the IDA High Performance Rudders and Daggerboard.
I'll be tuning my rig tomorrow, thanks for all your advice...
Ed Radonic
I just ordered the IDA High Performance Rudders and Daggerboard.
I'll be tuning my rig tomorrow, thanks for all your advice...
Ed Radonic
Ed,
Most people on this board, FrankM excluded of course, would tell you that racing is really not the boat's strong point.
The thing I think everyone can agree on is the fact that speed is roughly inversly proportional to weight, maybe even more so for this boat.
Some people have had success racing the boat, but I bet they'll suggest keeping the boat as light as possible...
So, you are taking a boat who's primary design goal was not racing, and weighing it down with all sorts of crusing gear. That's a recipe for having trouble rounding the first mark, if ever I heard one... The only worse thing you could do, would be to ask me to skipper her...
I too have lots of gear, A/C, microwave, fridge, but only 4 batteries (which I thought was rather expreme). So, I like comfort on my boat too, but you just won't see me trying to race any time soon...
Most people on this board, FrankM excluded of course, would tell you that racing is really not the boat's strong point.
The thing I think everyone can agree on is the fact that speed is roughly inversly proportional to weight, maybe even more so for this boat.
Some people have had success racing the boat, but I bet they'll suggest keeping the boat as light as possible...
So, you are taking a boat who's primary design goal was not racing, and weighing it down with all sorts of crusing gear. That's a recipe for having trouble rounding the first mark, if ever I heard one... The only worse thing you could do, would be to ask me to skipper her...
I too have lots of gear, A/C, microwave, fridge, but only 4 batteries (which I thought was rather expreme). So, I like comfort on my boat too, but you just won't see me trying to race any time soon...