I have a 2005 26M and am tired of crawling along behiond the fleet in the races. I am therefore beginning to tinker, looking at the tuning of the rig, adding a backstay, etc etc
Other sailors are convinced that no amount of tinkering will make the slightest bit of difference. They all say that it is a US design for calm waters on still days - No good for NZ waters
So I will start with the simple and inexpensive adjustments with the hope of proving them wrong!
Sailors on this site talk of removing the stitching from the bottom 5 inches of the bolt rope to free it from the sail. Before I take this radical step I want to be certain of what I am doing.
I have Doyle sails. The bolt rope doesn't go right to the foot of the sail, but stops short by a few inches. Is it still correct that I need to undo the stitching above this level? This will free getting on for twelve inches of the bottom of the sail. Is that right?
26M Bolt Rope stitching
Reberlein,
Yes....I have the 2004 M. It sails reasonable, but I usually see the backend of most other sailing boats when sailing. Especially in very light conditions - but I've not invested in a cruising sheet or larger genoa either. In more moderate conditions I think it does better and did manage to overtake an Endeavor 26 keel boat recently.
I've seen the comments about the bolt rope, but not game to cut mine just as yet.
By the way, I will be flying across to Auckland tomorrow for 10 days or so. I get across fairly regularly with work. Wind strength is often a bit strong in NZ in my experience. Wondering how you find the 26M in those conditions ?
Craig
Yes....I have the 2004 M. It sails reasonable, but I usually see the backend of most other sailing boats when sailing. Especially in very light conditions - but I've not invested in a cruising sheet or larger genoa either. In more moderate conditions I think it does better and did manage to overtake an Endeavor 26 keel boat recently.
I've seen the comments about the bolt rope, but not game to cut mine just as yet.
By the way, I will be flying across to Auckland tomorrow for 10 days or so. I get across fairly regularly with work. Wind strength is often a bit strong in NZ in my experience. Wondering how you find the 26M in those conditions ?
Craig
Craig,
I find that it heels a lot - is the answer! I have also found that I completely loose steering, as soon as I try to bring the sails in, especially with the genoa. I have recently changed back to the standard jib instead.
At 10 knots of wind it is manageable but more than that and I have everything reefed in. As soon as we bring it up to wind, we just blow over. I have controlled the rounding up by holding the mainsheet all the time and constantly adjusting it. The swell that normally goes with it really does slow me down as well.
I don't want to give up though and therefore want to get the boat at its best first. Then I will know that it is either my poor helming or the design of the boat.
By the way - Well Done on overtaking something!
Hopefully somebody will give me a bit of guidance on the bolt rope.
Richard :
I find that it heels a lot - is the answer! I have also found that I completely loose steering, as soon as I try to bring the sails in, especially with the genoa. I have recently changed back to the standard jib instead.
At 10 knots of wind it is manageable but more than that and I have everything reefed in. As soon as we bring it up to wind, we just blow over. I have controlled the rounding up by holding the mainsheet all the time and constantly adjusting it. The swell that normally goes with it really does slow me down as well.
I don't want to give up though and therefore want to get the boat at its best first. Then I will know that it is either my poor helming or the design of the boat.
By the way - Well Done on overtaking something!
Hopefully somebody will give me a bit of guidance on the bolt rope.
Richard :
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Richard O'Brien
- Captain
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- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 8:20 am
- Location: Lakewood, CO. Mercury 60hp bigfoot M0427B404
Yes, cut the stitching at the bottom of your luff, if it's a bit baggy. The Doyle mainsail does not use a non-shrinking luff rope for Macgregor's. don't feel to bad as even the j-24's have the same problem. The rope will slide up inside the luff a few inches. Stitch it there, then add a new short length of rope at the bottom to secure your bottom slides or slip into the mast if necessary. or ignore it if it is too short. My sailmaker said there should be no gathered luff. Pull it tight. It made quite a difference for me and was cheap.
The next thing to do is add Idasailor rudders, or look into squaring yours up down there somehow. this will make a big difference.
I'm pretty sure the next most noticable change might be a new mainsail with full roach and two top full battens. Look at Leon's (Delevi) entries?
The next thing to do is add Idasailor rudders, or look into squaring yours up down there somehow. this will make a big difference.
I'm pretty sure the next most noticable change might be a new mainsail with full roach and two top full battens. Look at Leon's (Delevi) entries?
Last edited by Richard O'Brien on Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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delevi
- Admiral
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- Location: San Francisco Catalina 380, former 26M owner
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Don't cut your bolt rope. This should only be done if you think it shrunk i.e. cannot get proper halyard tension and/or sail shape. If this is your issue, then yes, cutting it free will help. If not, you really won't add any performance. I have made a numbe of changes/mods to my boat to increase performance, particularly in heavy air. Here in San Francisco, I am frequently sailing in big winds. Here are some suggestions:
1. Reduce mast rake by cranking up your froestay trunbuckle. This will help reduce the weather helm. While you're at it, add some tension to the shrouds. Make sure the uppers are tighter than the lowers so you can get the mast to bend some.
2. Don't use the genoa in heavy wind, use the working jib.
3. put a lot of tension on the halyard and outhaoul to get your main sail as flat as possible. Reef whenever winds are 15 knts+ You will go faster because of less heel.
4. If you have roller furling, try to furl in about 1/3 of the jib when winds are heavy. You may also find it helpful to fly the jib slightly undertrimmed.
5. Put your jib fairleads all the way back to induce twist and flatten out the sail.
This should help. In my case, it wasn't enough so I made some expensive modifications, but well worth it, in my opinion.
1. Had a custom dagger board made with 150 lbs of lead in the bottom 15 inches.
2. Had custom (larger) rudders made
3. Got high performance sails (my stock sails blew out) This makes a huge difference.
4. cunningham
5. two reef points
6. running backstays
7. luff pad on the jib for roller reefing
8. custom steering linkage, used to quickly and easily disconnect the engine from the rudders for lighter helm and better control.
Let me know if you have questions on any of this stuff. You can also search this site and find many useful mods. Bottom line, is the Mac is not a race boat, but if you're willing to make the effort and spend the money, you can make it perform reasonably well.
Good luck!
Leon
1. Reduce mast rake by cranking up your froestay trunbuckle. This will help reduce the weather helm. While you're at it, add some tension to the shrouds. Make sure the uppers are tighter than the lowers so you can get the mast to bend some.
2. Don't use the genoa in heavy wind, use the working jib.
3. put a lot of tension on the halyard and outhaoul to get your main sail as flat as possible. Reef whenever winds are 15 knts+ You will go faster because of less heel.
4. If you have roller furling, try to furl in about 1/3 of the jib when winds are heavy. You may also find it helpful to fly the jib slightly undertrimmed.
5. Put your jib fairleads all the way back to induce twist and flatten out the sail.
This should help. In my case, it wasn't enough so I made some expensive modifications, but well worth it, in my opinion.
1. Had a custom dagger board made with 150 lbs of lead in the bottom 15 inches.
2. Had custom (larger) rudders made
3. Got high performance sails (my stock sails blew out) This makes a huge difference.
4. cunningham
5. two reef points
6. running backstays
7. luff pad on the jib for roller reefing
8. custom steering linkage, used to quickly and easily disconnect the engine from the rudders for lighter helm and better control.
Let me know if you have questions on any of this stuff. You can also search this site and find many useful mods. Bottom line, is the Mac is not a race boat, but if you're willing to make the effort and spend the money, you can make it perform reasonably well.
Good luck!
Leon
Arrh......Nelson.......lovely, but windy. .....you get to sail in the Marlborough Sounds ? Thats on my list, along with lake Waikeiremoanna ! as well as Whitsundays and Gippsland on my side of the ditch.
OK. Reefing the main helps a lot - I have 2 reefing points on the main. Its very easy to overpower a 26M in my experience. I've also found the standard jib to be too much sometimes as well. I had a reef put into the bottom of my jib - so it can be rolled up at the bottom. I've only used twice, but it works, and allows me to tack when the conditions get more challenging. Sailing on the main alone is not enough to complete a tacking manouevre.
Ballast tank needs to be absolutely full - I only did the three quarters full trick once - the boat laid over so easily when the wind hit.... and my wife has still not forgiven me !
Will be flying down to Wellington Friday to drop in on the wifes family around Carterton.
Good luck with your M.
Craig
OK. Reefing the main helps a lot - I have 2 reefing points on the main. Its very easy to overpower a 26M in my experience. I've also found the standard jib to be too much sometimes as well. I had a reef put into the bottom of my jib - so it can be rolled up at the bottom. I've only used twice, but it works, and allows me to tack when the conditions get more challenging. Sailing on the main alone is not enough to complete a tacking manouevre.
Ballast tank needs to be absolutely full - I only did the three quarters full trick once - the boat laid over so easily when the wind hit.... and my wife has still not forgiven me !
Will be flying down to Wellington Friday to drop in on the wifes family around Carterton.
Good luck with your M.
Craig
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Craig LaForce
- First Officer
- Posts: 349
- Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:38 pm
On my X I cut the bolt rope stitching and it made a big improvement. Those stiches are useless except to screw up the sail shape.
The rig needs to be balanced. If it tries to round up into the wind, tilt the mast forward by adjusting the turnbuckles. Hopefully you have added turnbuckles to replace the pin hole shroud adjusters.
having a 2nd reef point added to the mainsail is very helpful to adjust sail to higher winds, without putting in the storm factory reef.
if you have a traveller, it should probably be let down all the way for high winds.
The rig should be tight enough so as not to pound. Movement will cause breakage due to shock laoding.
My 2 cents. (worth even less now that the US dollar is de-valueing)
The rig needs to be balanced. If it tries to round up into the wind, tilt the mast forward by adjusting the turnbuckles. Hopefully you have added turnbuckles to replace the pin hole shroud adjusters.
having a 2nd reef point added to the mainsail is very helpful to adjust sail to higher winds, without putting in the storm factory reef.
if you have a traveller, it should probably be let down all the way for high winds.
The rig should be tight enough so as not to pound. Movement will cause breakage due to shock laoding.
My 2 cents. (worth even less now that the US dollar is de-valueing)
Whoa - Thankyou to all of you - So much to take in.
The suggestions with regard to full ballast tank, reefing, 2nd reefing, jib roller-reefing, traveller adjustment, disconnecting the engine from the steering and not using the genoa I have already done.
So now I will start on the cheap options:
Firstly I intend to adjust the rig. I checked with a carpenters level today and found that the mast actually leans forward slightly. I need two people in the cockpit and then intend to adjust the forestay. The book suggest a measurement from the bow rubber strip to the mast. Mine is about an inch too short. Is there a suggested rake angle? I see from other comment that it is 2-4 degrees aft on the 26X but what about on the 26M? Also, the book suggests 1" of mast bend. Delevi -How much are you suggesting?
Second to tighten the upper shrouds to a low pitch twang
Third to tighten the lower shrouds(but only snug)
Fourth to sail with everything on the main as tight as possible to present a flatter sail to the wind.
Fifth to cut the stitching to release the bolt rope if shrinkage is visible along the luff.
Sixth - To think about expensive sails, rudders........................
edurbin - Have agood flight and trip to Wellington
Mast rake angle on a 26M?
Thanks again
Richard
The suggestions with regard to full ballast tank, reefing, 2nd reefing, jib roller-reefing, traveller adjustment, disconnecting the engine from the steering and not using the genoa I have already done.
So now I will start on the cheap options:
Firstly I intend to adjust the rig. I checked with a carpenters level today and found that the mast actually leans forward slightly. I need two people in the cockpit and then intend to adjust the forestay. The book suggest a measurement from the bow rubber strip to the mast. Mine is about an inch too short. Is there a suggested rake angle? I see from other comment that it is 2-4 degrees aft on the 26X but what about on the 26M? Also, the book suggests 1" of mast bend. Delevi -How much are you suggesting?
Second to tighten the upper shrouds to a low pitch twang
Third to tighten the lower shrouds(but only snug)
Fourth to sail with everything on the main as tight as possible to present a flatter sail to the wind.
Fifth to cut the stitching to release the bolt rope if shrinkage is visible along the luff.
Sixth - To think about expensive sails, rudders........................
edurbin - Have agood flight and trip to Wellington
Mast rake angle on a 26M?
Thanks again
Richard
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Catigale
- Site Admin
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Richard - imho the Mac isnt much of a race boat, especially to wind, there is just too much freeboard and too little righting moment to point and race against similar keelboats sizewise..of course, extensive mods can overcome some of these shortcomings. such as what Leon has done..
I will confess to 'racing' a bunch of keelboats on the VIenyard sound in really light air, and steadily pulling away from them - one of them kept looking at us through binoculars and yelling at his crew to trim, then kept on watching and fuming as we pulled away steadily..
(My Mercury 50 HP BF was ticking over at 1500 rpm motorsailing, undetectable to the fleet)
I will confess to 'racing' a bunch of keelboats on the VIenyard sound in really light air, and steadily pulling away from them - one of them kept looking at us through binoculars and yelling at his crew to trim, then kept on watching and fuming as we pulled away steadily..
(My Mercury 50 HP BF was ticking over at 1500 rpm motorsailing, undetectable to the fleet)
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delevi
- Admiral
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- Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 1:03 am
- Location: San Francisco Catalina 380, former 26M owner
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Stephen, that's cheating 
I guess the ends justify the means i.e. getting a rise out of the captain of that keelboat, having a hissy fit from being overtaken by a Mac
Richard,
I would suggest as little rake as possible. I never measure mine, but I have the trunbuckle cranked to the max. It appears the mast is about vertical i.e. zero to very little rake. I can't imagine yours would tilt forward... not sure if that's possible, especially with the stock forestay length. Your lower shrouds may be too tight, causing the mast to pump forward. I have a slight bend in mine; aft, again no tools to measure. My uppers are very tight and the lowers are just snug, forestay at minimum length w/turnbuckle cranked all the way. After much tweaking, I found this setup to work best. Try it. The two downsides is having the uppers really tight make it more difficult for the mast to rotate in light air. Moderate to heavy air, no problem. A worth-while compromise in my opionion, since you can rotate by hand in light air. Also, with short forestay and tight shrouds, the forestay is hard to pin. I crank down the mast raising pole/winch to the maximum-where the winch touches the mast; to get enough tension so I can pin the forestay.... again worth it.
If you like the Mac for what it is and decide to do mods over time, I think you'll be happy. I can now keep up or ovetake many keel boats on San Francisco Bay. I think the biggest drawbacks to the Mac are low quality sails, insufficient ballast for heavy winds and undersized rudders. This is why I changed all of these and the improvements really transformed the boat's performance. As you found, the Mac sails differently from other boats, so reef early and you'll be glad you did. Also, play the mainsheet aggressively in heavy air going upwind (sounds like you're doing this) I am considering upgrading my mainsheet system to a 6:1 with a ratcheting block. This allows for quick sheeting without cleating off, using very little force by holding the sheet in hand, due to the ratchets locking under load. About $200 from Harken.
Good luck & fair winds,
Leon
I guess the ends justify the means i.e. getting a rise out of the captain of that keelboat, having a hissy fit from being overtaken by a Mac Richard,
I would suggest as little rake as possible. I never measure mine, but I have the trunbuckle cranked to the max. It appears the mast is about vertical i.e. zero to very little rake. I can't imagine yours would tilt forward... not sure if that's possible, especially with the stock forestay length. Your lower shrouds may be too tight, causing the mast to pump forward. I have a slight bend in mine; aft, again no tools to measure. My uppers are very tight and the lowers are just snug, forestay at minimum length w/turnbuckle cranked all the way. After much tweaking, I found this setup to work best. Try it. The two downsides is having the uppers really tight make it more difficult for the mast to rotate in light air. Moderate to heavy air, no problem. A worth-while compromise in my opionion, since you can rotate by hand in light air. Also, with short forestay and tight shrouds, the forestay is hard to pin. I crank down the mast raising pole/winch to the maximum-where the winch touches the mast; to get enough tension so I can pin the forestay.... again worth it.
If you like the Mac for what it is and decide to do mods over time, I think you'll be happy. I can now keep up or ovetake many keel boats on San Francisco Bay. I think the biggest drawbacks to the Mac are low quality sails, insufficient ballast for heavy winds and undersized rudders. This is why I changed all of these and the improvements really transformed the boat's performance. As you found, the Mac sails differently from other boats, so reef early and you'll be glad you did. Also, play the mainsheet aggressively in heavy air going upwind (sounds like you're doing this) I am considering upgrading my mainsheet system to a 6:1 with a ratcheting block. This allows for quick sheeting without cleating off, using very little force by holding the sheet in hand, due to the ratchets locking under load. About $200 from Harken.
Good luck & fair winds,
Leon
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baldbaby2000
- Admiral
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- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2004 8:41 am
- Location: Rapid City, SD, 2005 26M, 40hp Tohatsu
- Contact:
Richard,
I added weight to my daggerboard, about 55 lbs of lead and not too difficult to do. I've sailed Richard Obrien's 26M with the larger IDA rudders and they seem to help, and I'm impressed with Leon's speed claims with the new sails so I'm looking at those as future options.
The truth is that all sailboats are slow but trying to be less slow is part of the challenge!
BB
I added weight to my daggerboard, about 55 lbs of lead and not too difficult to do. I've sailed Richard Obrien's 26M with the larger IDA rudders and they seem to help, and I'm impressed with Leon's speed claims with the new sails so I'm looking at those as future options.
The truth is that all sailboats are slow but trying to be less slow is part of the challenge!
BB