Dissapointing 2005 26M

[Phillip]

I have pretty stong opinions on these sorts of issues.

1.) If you don't like what you bought, then sell and buy something you will be happy with.
2.) Don't take delivery of anything you are not happy with, and a boat is not a difficult item to'check out'. Don't sign the cheque till you are satisfied.
3.) If you are not capable of doing 2.) then spend $300 and get a Surveyor in to do it for you. (I have always done this - best bucks you ever spend).
4.) If this topic is making prospective buyers 'nervous', then forget buying a Mac and buy the Mach1 or something.

This chap Roger MacGregor is producing an incredible product for the price he is charging.
I strongly suspect that in the near future he may wish to retire, plus believe this MacGregor Corporation must be a very attractive item for large manufacturing Corporations. (I know enough to understand this business is ripe for the pickings)
The day he sells out, then I suggest you will then have the priviledge of paying close to $40K for this boat, and when this happens, I suggest most of us will be driving 14' tinnies with 9hp hanging off the back, and overnighting will be a tent and a spade.
Altough Roger MacGregor may be a capitalist; in his heart I wonder if he is not a bit of a socialist, and decided he wants to make a budget boat for the average working class man and his family to enjoy.
I also wonder, if he does sell out and the price goes to what it should be, then this board will have as many members as the Mach1 board does.

Personally I reckon all the satisfied customers should send him a letter of thanks.
I will let you know when I do it.

Cheers
Phillip
PS don't mean this to sound harsh, just my attitude to things.

[beene]

"PS don't mean this to sound harsh, just my attitude to things."

We are always open to personal points of view, which is why the forum is one of the best on the net

G

[deja_vu]

While I certainly respect your opinion, I can tell you from my visit to the factory to pick up the boat, Roger is not a Socialist. He's in this because he found himself a way to make money, by providing a decent boat at a reasonable cost. He's making a good profit on it, and not selling it for less than it should be sold for. He's able to sell it for that price by using cheap labor and not being as stringent with his quality control as the big manufacturers.

That being said, from my experience, between him and the dealers they'll make anything right you want-but seems from reading these boards on rare occasions there are some dealers you may have to push it with (All I had to do with mine was ask).

But even then you can find corners cut all over the boat. That's how he saves money making them and how he make his profits. For example, he won't spend the extra $2 in parts and maybe $10 in labor to put the screws in place to hold the covers over the hatchs under the rear berth. Why? Because if you spread that cost over all the boats he sells it equals a little bit of extra profit.

It's not about providing an excellent boat for everyman out of the good of his heart, it about providing a boat that is a great design for its target market, at a price low enough that many people will buy it, and that compared to other boats people are willing to over look the flaws.

[eric3a]

..

[beene]

Well, that beats "Ugly Duck"

G

[Frank C]

Shouldn't we be able to trust a dealer to check the boat over prior to purchase and fix any problems? Good old fashioned customer service comes to mind (although, quite rare in the 21st century)...

I'm not sure that I understand the question. I really like the phrase posted by paj637, you get what you inspect, not what you expect. The real issues arise from hidden defects or damage, which the original poster has cited. If you have a local dealer you can take it back for repairs. Otherwise, we need to study carefully for any potential problems:

Yes, we expect a dealer has "fully commissioned" the boat.
But who's at fault if we don't inspect it before writing the check?

[deja_vu]

Isn't it kind of sad that in today's world we're the ones at fault when a boat is built with flaws, leaves the factory with flaws, and leaves the dealer with flaws and we don't notice them and sign the check?

Shouldn't there be some sort of expectation that when you spend money on any product, regardless of the cost, that you should get it without having to hire someone to inspect it to find out if your new product was built correctly?

When was the last time anyone took a brand new car (not used) to an auto mechanic to see if it was sound prior to purchasing it? Yes, I realize they are mass produced and the public would not stand for them having the same problems a boat might, but the concept is still the same.

A boat factory should already have had an inspector go through the boat to find all the flaws and to have fixed them prior to ever sending to a dealer.

Its kind of like the fact that if you leave your car unlocked it's your fault someone decided to steal all your stuff inside.

Wouldn't it be nice if people would take personal responsiblity for their work and their actions? But I realize that isn't the world in which we live, so we do what we can with what we've got.

[Catigale]

We are accepting risk of defects for a 2x lower price point vs the competition...if one wants to claim they did that unknowingly, then I guess I would be a bit harsh and do the 'free lunch' argument.....no offense intended...

[deja_vu]

Well I think most of us on this board did it knowingly, because we've seen the stories on the Internet and did the research. And still decided that this boat was the best fit for what we wanted to do despite the pitfalls that we risk. I'd guess not every first time boat buyer (which is one of this boats largest target markets) does that kind of research or even knows to do so.

But you've got to wonder how many people are out there who just saw the DVD, which shows how wonderful the manufacturing process is, and tells you how you really don't get what you pay for, and then expected a perfect/near perfect boat like the other brands you see on the showroom floors.

It may be half the cost, but they still are around 20k. Do you expect a 20k car to have defects and poor workmanship just because it's not a 40k car?

You don't. You just expect it to not be as luxurious or have as many nice features or extras. You still expect it to be well built.

[Frank C]

Isn't it kind of sad that in today's world we're the ones at fault when a boat is built with flaws, leaves the factory with flaws, and leaves the dealer with flaws and we don't notice them and sign the check?

Shouldn't there be some sort of expectation that when you spend money on any product, regardless of the cost, that you should get it without having to hire someone to inspect it to find out if your new product was built correctly? ...

There IS that expectation, established in old English common law.

They include an implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, an implied warranty of merchantability for products.

The problem is that we individuals all have different ideas of exactly what that means. You can rely on common law, be disappointed and ask a judge to assess your own definition of merchantability. Or, inspect before writing the check, and avoid a lot of frustation, and recovery time and effort.

Boat building is a much different industry, much less sophisticated, much less regulated than the automobile industry. It's a cottage industry, growing up. So, we must rely on the courts rather than regulators for dispute resolution.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

An interesting parallel to this is new homes. Up here in Washington the goverment is considering passing laws forcing builders to actually stand behind their product. You spend hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars on a new house, probably the biggest purchase of most peoples lives, yet there is no requirement that the builder offer any warranty or stand behind the quality of their workmanship.

Case after case of poor workmanship that builders have refused to address has forced this issue. Peole have ended up tearing down new houses just a few years after they were built and selling them for land only value because of damage caused by builder flaws.

It's not just boats. heck the same was true for cars 20 years ago until lemon laws and the build quality coming out of Japan forced the US automakers to change.

[deja_vu]

I actually thought about houses when I was writing about the expectation on a car. My younger sister recently built a home that was nothing but problems.

The builder made it right in the long run, but she had to move out of the house a month after moving in to get it fixed.

So I guess since we can live in them, and deduct taxes on them (if you've got a loan out), our boats are more like houses. :)

Buyer Beware.

[Frank C]

RJ sent me some pictures of his boat issues. There are five, including all right here.
(Edit) Please go back and read the original post, plus RJ's quoted email comments.
Now ... Any comments, suggestions, advice for RJ?

Here are a few pictures .Some showing external transom repair and one inside showing a saw cut through the fiberglass to the plywood and one showing gelcoat crazing.

I probably would never noticed the saw cut if I wasn't trying to find a water leak that allowed 1/2 to 2 gallons into the rear berth storage compartments depending amount of precipitation.

SloppyTransomRepair ...

Inside Transom (saw kerf) ...

Stern Light ...

Crazing ...

RepairClose-up ...

[rowdy]

Why did the transom need repair.

On a weak transom, hitting a rock with the propellor can cause considerable damage that is expensive to repair. I can't see the fiberglass weave well from the inside transom view in the photos but but it looks very loose.

-Mark

[Catigale]

It may be half the cost, but they still are around 20k. Do you expect a 20k car to have defects

It is about 20k, and half the cost of the next boat, correct.

I dont expect a 20k car to have defects, because I can buy a 20k car without defects from several auto makers.....

I cant buy a 20k boat, except from one maker.....

Does that make sense or am I just channeling Chip???