Standing Rigging Tension?

[hvolkhart]

I have read a lot of posts about how to use different way's to assemble the furler.
However, I have the feeling that my forstay and shrouts (upper and lower) are very loose.
Does anyone know how tight the tension should be (forstay with roller furler, upper shrouts and lower shrouts)?
Is there a messurement for this?
And is there a way to measure it without buying one of the $100 West Marine tension gauges?


[mod]ModEdit: Moving to P&T ~fc[/mod]

[baldbaby2000]

I think you should consider a gauge or be careful not to overtension things. Tension builds up fast with small changes.

[vkmaynard]

Buy the best Loos gauge (PT1) for 5/32" wire from Online Marine for $88 delivered: http://www.onlinemarine.com/cgi-local/S ... 1180680787. It is more accurate and clamps on the wire, hands free.

Having just finished removing as much rake as possible (excessive roundup), I found that on the final adjustment, slightly less than 1/2 of a hole = 30+ lbs. My final #'s on the shrouds are 300# on the uppers and 270# on the lowers. After sailing in the next two weeks I may move the upper shroud adjusters up 1/2 hole which will put the uppers at 270# and the lowers at 240#.

From research, I would tighten the forestay all the way. Then use the main halyard or a chalk line tied from the top aft side of the mast for a straight reference along the aft of the mast from top to the foot. Completely loosen the lower shrouds (and backstay). Make sure that the upper shrouds are in the same holes (also measure the shrouds to make sure they are the same length). Tighten the upper shrouds until the mast has a 2 1/2" forward bend in the middle (preloads the mast). Check the tension to make sure it is around 200#. Then tighten the lowers to pull the mast back about 1/2", this which will also tighten the uppers as the mast tries to straighten. Check the tension and keep it below 270# (the lowers will have a lower tension). Check the tension on the uppers again. Keep repeating this process while maintaining the 2" forward mast bend until you get no more than 300# on the upper shrouds and 270# on the lowers (keeps the mast from pumping). With a gauge you can easily see the relationship between the shrouds.

The next step is to sail the boat and see how much the leeward shrouds slack.

The only thing I assumed was ok (based on #'s being less than the Loos recommendation for the shrouds) was the tension on the forestay since the furler was in place and it could not be measured. If you decide to take the fuler off and measure the tension, please post your results.

Without the gauge my lower shrouds were set to 600#! Hard to tell unless you are a super expert (even those guys use a gauge).

Any expert on this forum is free to correct this information. This is the simplified of what I read (and did) after many hours of research on the Mac 26X tunning. The one sail on the boat so far feels like a BIG improvement in handling and balance.

Victor

[Catigale]

If you decide to take the fuler off and measure the tension, please post your results.

You dont need to take it off, just pull the pin and push it up the forestay to expose enough for a measurement.....this is easier with no foresail on the extrusion.

[vkmaynard]

The PVC piece on my furler only lifts a few inches. To use the guage I need at least 12".

Victor

[hvolkhart]

Thank you Victor,
I think this will help to set up the correct tension for the shrouts.

I have ordered the gauge from Online Marine and hopefully I get the job done prior to our one week cruising on the Kentucky Lake

[Frank C]

If you decide to take the fuler off and measure the tension, please post your results.

You dont need to take it off, just pull the pin and push it up the forestay to expose enough for a measurement.....this is easier with no foresail on the extrusion.

FWIW, I don't think forestay tension makes any difference, whatever.

Forestay tension is simply the result of holding the mast against the measured, valid and balanced tensions that stand the mast with appropriate prebend. If you've done everything else correctly, there's no reason for checking forestay tension. You can't change it, anyway.

[vkmaynard]

hvolkhart,

Did you finish setting up you rig? We finally got to test the the reduced rake this weekend. What a BIG improvement! No more scooping roundups. I am not sure why the MacGregor is delivered with overly sever roundup training wheels.

The rig tension looked great on our boat. No slacking and no pumping in 15 mph winds with small gusts.

Victor

[Terry]

Does anyone have advice/instructions specifically for an M?
I read a few articles here and then (without a loos gage, I don't have one) went out to the driveway and leveled the trailer so that the boot stripe was level to a 2 foot measuring level I have. I then proceeded to adjust all shrouds while hanging a 10 lbs weight off the end of the main halyard a few inches off the deck. It looks like I got a few inches of aft rake while at the same time inducing minimal foreward bend at the lower shroud hound. the forestay is tight all the way and upper shrouds can almost be twanged, very tight. Lower shrouds are tight but not as much as uppers and forestay is tightened beyond what the raising kit can accomplish (I used the turnbuckle to really yard up on it) It is now very tight and stiff to rotate the mast by hand but I also put in a pulley system to rotate the mast by lines from the cockpit if it happens to stick. I figure if the pulleys can rotate it so can the wind & sails but I have not tested it yet. As soon as the rains let up and temps increase a bit I will test it out but I am a bit concerned that maybe I have it too tight. Without the loos gage it is guess and by golly, keeping my fingers crossed.

[kziadie]

Terry,

It is really hard to describe tension without using the gauge numbers without using subjective words which mean different things to different people. I agonized over buying the gauge knowing that I would only use it once or twice a year, but I have not regretted it.

One tidbit I can offer from painful experience... you mentioned levelling the boat using the bootstripe as a reference. That is a good thing, but you have to make sure you do this on BOTH the longitudinal and beam axis'. I had a situation where I had the trailer on what appeared to be level ground with the jack adjusted to have the boat level lengthwise. I found that to get the gauge equalized on both sides, I was using different holes in the caliper to the effect that one side was about 3/4" longer than the other.

I was suspicious that such a new boat would have such uneven stretch in the shrouds and wondered if my spreader was bent or if the shrouds came from the factory with unequal lengths. Then I noticed my inclinometer was showing almost a 5 degree list. Moving the trailer to different spots did not improve this. Eventually I came to the conclusion that the boat was not sitting centered on the trailer or possibly the bunks were off kilter a bit. After launching the boat twice, it finally sat level beamwise on the trailer. When I rechecked the shrouds, the same holes on both sides gave me equal tension.

Hope this helps.

Kelly

[Terry]

Thanks Kziadie,
Funny thing, I never even thought of it as beamwise leveling, but I can say that I always notice when getting in and out of the boat in the driveway that my inclinometer (mounted smack in the middle of the companionway hatch under the handle) is generally right level. As I went through my process I automatically assumed that sidestays were of equal length on each side so what ever I did on one side with the stay adjusters I did exactly the same on the other, hole for hole. For some strange reason it never occurred to check the inclinometer but I did hold the level up to the mast all four sides to check plumbness. I laso noticed that the main halyard was exceptionally plumb with the 10# weight on it so I felt it was safe to assume the mast was plumb to the boat and in retrospect remembering that inclinometer was always level I was good to go. I actually had to use a car jack to get the trailer nose down low because I had to remove the nose wheel to get it low enough on my uneven driveway, actually set the boat a bit bow heavy as it usually sits that way in the water. I am surprised I got the beamwise leveling after hearing about you.
Anyway I am still agonizing over the loos gage purchase for the same reason, cost use ratio. I guess I should bite the bullet.

[vkmaynard]

Maybe you can find a loaner gauge. I loaned mine out and hopefully it will be returned in perfect condition.

$88 is not much more than a family dinner nowadays.

No buyers remorse after seeing how impossible the job would be wihtout using a gauge. I suspect the HORRIBLE New Millennium boat dealer in VA originally had the rig way over tensioned to the point you had to tie a rope to the furler and step on it to pin the stay. Now its' very easy to pin.

Victor

[c130king]

I had the same issue (loose shrouds...at least to my "untrained" eye) on my when I got it in Nov 06. The leeward side shrouds were pretty slack when sailing and they didn't feel tight when sitting still.

Did a lot of "searching" on this site, learned some good info and in the end ordered a Loos Gauge.

But before it came in I went out and adjusted my side stays. I think I went 2 increments on the lowers and 1 increment on the uppers. It "felt" pretty good after I did that.

When my Loos Gauge came in I measured it and came up with 220# on the uppers and 200# on the lowers. Haven't touched them since and they seem to work out well. Don't know what I had before but it was obviously lower. Haven't used my Loos Gauge since.

That also seemed to tighten up my forestay a little. I still to this day have not removed my foresail and adjusted the turnbuckle under the furling mechanism.

Seems like some other owners have them a little tighter. Mostly I have seen owners comment and they mostly seem to have tighter tensions...not sure why.

Anyway, take that for what it is worth...which is just about nuthin'.

Jim

[delevi]

Got 600 lbs on my uppers and 320 on the lowers. Have the forestay super tight, to the point where huge torque is needed to pin it. This rig setup is good for big winds in reducing weather helm and mast pumping. It's a bit extreme but in my area is necessary for good performance and safety. I will probably drop the loads in half in the fall when winds are mild. If your typical wind conditions are moderate, I would guess that 300-400 pounds on the uppers would be just right and about 200 pounds on the lowers. I'm not an expert but I have done a lot of tweaking with different rig settings.

Leon

[baldbaby2000]

Leon,

Sounds pretty tight but I agree it makes a big difference. I was sighting up my mast the other day with a stiff wind and was suprised at the side-to-side bend in it. The M with it's rotating mast is going to behave differently than other boats. I tightened my lowers and it looks much better.

Do you raise and lower your mast often? How do you pin the forestay with that much tension?

Daniel