genoa track slides for ladder?

[Moe]

To deal with the sloped genoa track, you might want to remount it on a tapered fairing block to make it parallel to the waterline.

[Terry]

To deal with the sloped genoa track, you might want to remount it on a tapered fairing block to make it parallel to the waterline.

That sounds incredibley excessive Moe, especially considering the simplicity of the BWY mounting cars, one is simply a bit taller than the other. And since they attache with quick pins you can switch from port to starboard and reverse the cars in seconds. Why would you want to go to so much effort on the boat when addressing the cars is so obviously easier.
I guess it is reaching the point where I better get a photo bucket account and learn to post pics so that I can more readily demonstrate my point. Meantime it is simply a car like the regular genoa car but instead of a pulley mounted on it there is just a pair of flat metal pieces extending verticle with a hole drilled through to pass the quick pin while the ladder portion fits between the pair of verticle pieces. Extremely simlpe set-up, and I think someone with welding facilities could simply hacksaw off the pulley of a genoa car and weld those little verticle pieces in place a whole lot easier than taking the boat apart.
As for the ladder you posted, it looks like a first class solution for Scuba use, too bad about the dear price and parallel mount. If one has to modify one of the two options (BWY) I would think it less costly to modify the BWY one and add an extension as it is quite doable.
Richard now has seven pics of it that I sent him in various positions including one with the cars & quick pins removed and positioned next to the ladder so one can see how they work, that is the one you need to see to get a better idea.

[RichardB]

Catigale - It looks like the cars they use for the Foldaway are designed to accept the horizontal 1" tubular and would not be so easy to fit another ladder. I think if money were no object (it is) I'd ask them to mod one of the cars for the sloped track, that would be a really sweet ladder.

I still would like to find the same genoa cars that Scott Vos and Bruce Manes used, but baring that, I'm pursuing Terry's solution. Now l'm trying to figure out the best ladder to use as an extension & how to attach it. Probably just hinge a three step ladder to the bottom step. I just emailed BWY to get the width.

Richard

[Terry]

Richard,
I gave you the width in this thread in my first post, 14" wide on the bottom plate the 3" only represents the ss and the plastic would add another inch to aprox 4" deep.

[Frank C]

... It looks like the cars they use for the Foldaway are designed to accept the horizontal 1" tubular and would not be so easy to fit another ladder. I think if money were no object (it is) I'd ask them to mod one of the cars for the sloped track, that would be a really sweet ladder.

If you have a picture of what you want, or better yet a drawing ... I bet Garhauer in Los Angeles will fab whatever you want. Also bet it will be lots cheaper than anywhere else. Garhauer already makes the tracks and blocks Roger provides from the factory.

IIRC, they also make the EZ-cleats for Bill B4S ... for the same one-inch Genoa tracks. In fact, I bet they fabbed the special ladder mounts for BWY, too! In that case, you won't even need a drawing, just explain where you saw it.

I liked Harken's approach to a 2-speed mainsheet (3:1 or 6:1), but it retails for $500. I phoned Garhauer and they said, "Sure we can make that." They asked how I'd be mounting it, so they could make the dual cleats outfeed properly ... took 'em about a month. Garhauer's custom built 2-speed mainsheet, $150. I also have the Garhauer Rigid Vang ... a bargain in SS.

(No affiliation ... just a satisfied customer.)

[RichardB]

Hi Frank,

Thanks for the tip! I did call Garhauer Marine and spoke with Mark who said no problem, he can make the cars for ~$25 each, but that I should check first with another company that does a lot of work for Roger to make sure they don't already have this ladder. I called that company and they had offered several dealers just such a boarding ladder in the past but did not get enough interest to actually make it ...SO...after I verify dimensions on the WM ladder, I will be ordering the cars from Garhauer. I might just cut one of the ends of the ladder to deal with the angle of the track - meaning it would be good for one side only but that is fine for me. Looking more closely at Scott Manes pictures in the mods section, it appears that nothing was done for this and the ladder is hanging at a slight angle.

I will be sure to post pictures when all is done, although it will be awhile as I'm traveling to san jose for the next two weeks on business.

Terry - thanks for all the info and for sending the pictures of the BWY ladder. Extending that would be a very good solution as well, especially if I had need of a dock ladder. For my purposes this just seems simpler and probably cheaper since I'll only be buying one ladder instead of two. Plus the WM gunwale ladder has the built in hand holds at the top.

Richard

[Frank C]

Richard,

Rather than cutting one ladder leg, shop for standard fittings to permit a short extension to one of the legs. That might make it configurable to either side of the boat.

But, if GM will be welding a vertical tube atop a std G-car, seems they could easily make the tubes in different standing heights. Alternatively, if they make both tubes 3" tall, you could drop a short spacer down inside one of the tubes.

[RichardB]

All excellent suggestions Frank. I think I like the extension idea best as it seems simpler, and gives me ultimate control over the fine tuning. A strong removable leg could be easily made with two short lengths of tubing, one oversize to make the joint.

thanks!
Richard

[Frank C]

Richard ... we're zeroing in~!

My earlier point about shopping ... they make standard fittings for one-inch rail material. I think you'll find a SS "union" piece, right off the shelf, that just meets your needs for adding joining the ladder to a short extension leg ... West Marine, Cabelas, Defender, et al.

[Divecoz]

Bill sells track cars for a bimini maybe those coulds be modified to work???
Bill at Boats 4 sail this site

[rvdav]

I will be interested in these cars for the genoa track & ladder if they do work out to be manufactured by Garhauer or someone else. Please post results of quest for these parts.

[billfish]

Any new information on the ladder / cars? Photos?

[RichardB]

Sorry for dropping out for awhile there. I just had two long trips in a row. I did receive the track cars from Garhauer ~3 weeks ago and they were not what I was expecting and I've reached a standstill - mostly from lack of time to work on this project. Anyhow I was expecting cars similar to the ones that Scott Vos shows in his original Mod post that got me started down this road.




Instead I received two of these:

I'm sure my communication skill were lacking when trying to describe what I wanted, but now I don't know how to work with these cars, there is no way to account for the angle of the genoa track at all. The bimini type socket is going to point at 90deg to the tracks no matter what. I suppose I could remove those mounts from the cars, cut the ladder ends at different lengths to account for then angle, and have flat stock welded at the end to fit into the U mounts of the cars. I could also try to bend the U's to account for the angle and use the sockets... But in frustration I started thinking along a different path - why not use the mounting brackets that come with the WM ladder and mount the ladder as so:


using this bracket:


I would probably need to fashion another rung just above the rub rail to make this a practical ladder. The lifeline stanchion would serve as a handhold, although the ladder may need to be more in line with it for better balance.

To attach the backing plate for the bracket, it seems I could easily access the inside of the hull here to the right of the flashlight shoved between liner & hull:


Please tell me if I'm nuts because of problems or potential problems I can't see right now, but I the only remaining issue I can see is figuring out how to add that extra rung at the top.

As for a Genoa track solution, it probably would have been best if I had followed Terry's advice and ordered the two step dock ladder from BWY and I would have gotten these two nifty cars that compensate for the angle of the track (they would not sell them separately)



Terry's idea was to add a lower extension to the dock ladder, converting it to a swim ladder. I thought the other way would be easier.


Richard

[beene]

I'm not sure that the hull, even with a backing plate, would have sufficient strength for that job.

I would try to keep the attaching point, where the max load would be, in a location designed to better handle those loads.

G

[Jim Bunnell]

There is a year old mod here that shows mounting and reinforcing in that area. You might inquire how it has held up.