Sailing Lake Simcoe ... almost didn't make it.

[beene]

From the sounds of it, I don't think I would have bought a Mac for those seas either.

I love sailing her on my lake and the Great's around me though.

G

[marsanden]

For similar price you could get a more blue water boat, which I would honestly prefer in those waters to a Mac. Just not sure that the "running away" strategy can always work.

i agree with you Eric.
I like reading different opinion on mac performance , but, in my experience , its a wonderfull sailing boat for "breezes"....not more than breezes.
In my opinion , never leave the dock, sailing a mac, when the wind is more than 15 knots.
Or, as it seems is happened to Beene, never go away from the coast when the wind blows by the coast toward the deep.

On the other hand, while sailing- the wind can change, it can improve, sometime it can happen without warning.
In a circumstance like that, i hope all those who say that the Mac can sail with 25-30 knots of wind are right , and i will be able to go back home ( i started to sail, on different boats,more than 20 years ago).

[magnetic]

Hi Eric

no, my cross-channel escapades are strictly left to serious powerboats - 27ft with twin AQAD41 turbo diesels!

I bought the last month in order to teach my daughter to sail; believe me, if its gusting any more than a 5 tomorrow, we ain't going - I'm not going to give her a rough time the first time she tries sailing!

On the topic of radar deflectors, they are all equally useless unless you go for an active responder unit; the recent tragedy of the Ouzo sparked an in-depth review of all current models, and as soon as the boat starts to heel, you are all but invisible at 3 miles or less. Ironically, at greater distances you can once again be picked out from the chop -

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Ouzo_Synopsis.pdf

and

http://www.maib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Ra ... report.pdf

my personal approach is to ensure that, if they can't see me, then at least I can see them - that's why I use AIS with my Garmin GPSMAP498 Chartplotter, backed up with the excellent Seaclear II software running on my laptop in the cabin. You should check out this software - it's free and it's truly excellent

http://www.sping.com/seaclear/

The overall problem is that I DO live in the UK and I either have to take the weather I get, or leave it. Personally, I can't plane or fish above a Force 5, so that's the limit I set myself. The range I go offshore depends more on the price of fuel than on the state of the sea - my boat won the Round Britain race a few years ago (I wasn't in it!) and is a true thoroughbred Hunton Gazelle.

With the I doubt I'll get out of sight of land, but the Weymouth Bay, Lyme Bay and Poole Harbour areas are kinda fun, and there's always the Poor Man's Cape Horn (i.e. Portland Bill) if I'm feeling a bit sporty! For those of you who don't know the Bill, think washing machine on spin cycle!

All the best, Andrew

[eric3a]

..

[Jedaro]

High Wind Sailing Adventure.... almost didn't make it.

Reminds me of the one and only time Jedaro surfed down a wave.

Loved your post. It should be on the charts for Lake Simcoe, just below the warning that because of the shallow nature of the lake brisk winds can cause dangerous wave conditions.
A couple of years ago we set out from Orillia to sail to Beaverton at the south end of the Lake. We were from Ottawa and not familiar with the quirks of Lake Simcoe. The wind was brisk to begin with and commenced to get stronger. We took down the main and just sailed with the storm jib plus the Honda. As we blew by Lagoon City the VHF reported a small craft warning. hull we were the only craft out there as the waves became higher and we were warned. Soon the jib was completely furled and we were trying to scoot downwind to Beaverton. At one point the admiral had to visit the head. Door closed doing her duty. I just had time to yell to her to brace herself –2 wave trains were converging behing us. We heeled over quite a bit, the door flew open and she dropped bare ass onto the cabin floor. I was too busy exclaiming that the GPS has shown our speed to increase from 9 to 13 kph as we surfed down the wave as well as laughing to show her much sympathy. Once she got over the pain I paid. As we went by Beaverton we realized that the harbour opening was too narrow and rocky to attempt to get into the harbour so we motored over to the lee side of Toriah Island and docked for a few hours until the winds subsided a little then we went into the Beaverton Harbour. Even then I was on the bow with the boathook while Diane manoevered us into the harbour—a little iffy but the MacGregor with the Honda was great. Fun experience for me at least!

Mike Purdy Jedar o
I have some images but they're somewhere on my hard drive

[beene]

Hi Jedaro

Nice story, glad you made it safely, well sort of, at least you didn't have the bare A$$ incident.

If that were me, I think I would have been in divorce court !

Your Admiral must have a better sense of humor than mine, at least at her expense that is.

Cheers

G

[delevi]

Hey Geoff,

Good war story. Glad all is well. Been there, done that. I personally think the Mac is fine in high winds. It's the big seas that can cause issues. From plenty of Mac experience in high winds, I would like to offer a few suggestions:

1. The ability to reef from the cockpit is a MUST-HAVE MOD IMHO. You can avoid having to drop slugs by having jack lines installed, or per Bill @ Boats4Sail, have the slugs spaced differently. Either way, single or two line reefing from the cockpit will make life much easier when things get hairy.

2. Pinching upwind or slightly luffing the sails works well, but the latter takes a huge toll on the sails. I prefer to trim in hard and pinch, just a bit to keep heeling under control.

3. With many traveler configs, I found that traveler to leeward works best for upwind up to a beam reach and traveler to windward downwind, of course with main sheet compensating for appropriate trim. Exception to this is if your're pinching, then sheet to centerline.

4. The boat will almost always be in more control under sail than under power in huge waves, especially trailing seas which spun you out of control under sail and power. This is how I broke a rudder (broaching in 40 kts.)

Downwind, with those big waves, pulling up the board 3/4 to 7/8 makes a big difference. Use more headsail to push the bow to leeward to help avoid rounding/broaching. Must have the main reefed, or no main alltogether. In the conditions you describe, I would probably be sailing under jib alone with the board raised almost all the way up. As the bow digs in coming off a wave, the quartering wave pushes the stern to leeward, rudders stall, boat trips over its keel and round you go. No keel, nothing to trip. No main, no lever action, The jib helps push you back to leeward, hopefully long enough for water flow to resume on the rudders. Most importantly is timing. You have to feel the waves and plan your descent to try to avoid the bow digging in to windward. Sort of like keeping her in a groove. Of course, this is much easier said then done. I plaid with this last time in 25-30 kts and made a lot of improvement.

Coveat:
All this advice is coming from a guy who's still learning this boat, so I cetainly am not claiming to have all the answers. Just having been out there plenty of times in the heavy stuff and getting the crap knocked out of me, I have been ambitious in attempting to learn how to make it work.

I refuse to believe that the Mac should head for shelter during small craft advisories. Just takes acquiring experience, learning what works and what doesn't and making some mods. Of course, first and foremost, it takes the willingness/desire to be out there in such conditions. If you don't want to be out in a near gale, it doesn't matter if you're on a Mac or a 50 footer. Sure, I'd feel safer on the 50 as well Having just come back from sailing the Cyclades in Greece in a 32' keel boat, I would say she didn't perform too much better than the Mac. The Meltemi winds can get nasty out there fast. We sailed in force 7, touching force 8 during 2 days of our voyage and one night (stupid decision by yours truly.) Point being, this all happened in the early part of our journey which was all downwind broad reaching. Of course, I couldn't pull the board up on a keell boat, but I had to drop the main. Even under double reefed main, she wanted to broach. I sailed her under 125 genny w/o main and she hummed along at 7-8.5 kts. More on that in a later post when I get all my pictures organized.

Leon

[waternwaves]

agreed....... even a mylar genny on my mac is comfy at 20 kts of wind if that is the only rag up. (though I am sure she stretches considerably with no luff pad.. tho I don't see it in cursory inspection)

[beene]

Hi Leon

Just got back from a camping trip. It's been 2 weeks since I was out on Pegasus.... I think I am suffering from withdrawal.

Thanks for reading and enjoying the story. Nice to hear from your experiences with the same craft. If it wasn't for that shallow side of that lake I sail in, it would have been an awesome sailing day. When we were in less rough seas, as in the video, it was a blast that was putting a smile on my face you would've needed a chisel to remove.

It is rare to get a chance to push the envelope. We have a spot on the bay called Minets Point, were people from all over, including the US, come there to go windsurfing. Unfortunately, it is too shallow for sailboats. If I went over there, I would have to pull the keel up for sure.

Cheers

G

[delevi]

Geoff,

Just watched your video and slideshow. Very cool. Water skis on the Mac eh? You must be loving that Merc 75.

When I had my boat for the first year and half, I too would luff the sails a bit to control heeling. I learned the hard way that this will blow them out real quick. Of course you want a reason to upgrade your sails, right?

[beene]

Hi Leon

I have been using that luffing technique for 11 years on my other sailboat. Her sails are original from 1978 and going strong.

Maybe the Mac sails are not as good, you have more experience than me with that one.

That day we were out there, I thought, as Eric pointed out, we might have ended up bare pole whether we wanted to or not.

I still have not had a chance to replace the lost battens. I saw the one come out, shot out of the pocket like and arrow from a tight bow. Gonna have to get some of that sail tape on there next time.

Thanks for sending me the pics of your trip, your Admiral's quite the looker, you're a lucky guy.

Cheers

G

[delevi]

When you replace the battens, make sure you order from your dealer or Macgregor directly. Don't get the West Marine battens. They're junk, at least on the Mac sail. I too lost several battens on my old mainsail so I've been down that road. As for longevity, who knows. Perhaps the 3.9 oz dacron wasn't designed for constant heavy winds which was mine blew out so fast. All that and plenty of luffing. I really try to minimize luffing my new sails, though those heavy-duty bad boys can probably take plenty of abuse. Having the two full bats on top and larger standard bats really minimizes the luffing motion when air must be spilled. By the way, your sail shape looks great so probably nothing to worry about for a while. Mine looked like old bed sheets (to quote Frank C.)

PS.
I am a lucky guy. I'll pass the compliment along to Dawn.

Cheers,
L.

[Frank C]

Sorry Leon, I guess that was one of those 'engage mouth b4 brain' comments.

Candidly though, I never saw another mainsail that draped so badly, so it was no wonder you were having trouble with excess heel. That poor colt was surely "ridden hard & put away wet."

[delevi]

Sorry Leon, I guess that was one of those 'engage mouth b4 brain' comments.

Hey, it is difficult to offend me, so nothing to be sorry about. I was grateful for the confirmation that it was blown out, since this was my first experience with a blown out sail. Though I may talk the talk, I am still a novice sailor afterall.

[beene]

I am still a novice sailor afterall.

I would have to disagree Leon.

I think you are far from a novice.

Not a pro, but no novice either.

G