Repower an X -- With What?

[captronr]

I know everyone will say their motor is best, and I know many have posted here about different motors (I've read this site for a coupla years). We're looking at an 02X that might come without motor.

If you were going to repower your X, which motor would you pick and WHY?

For us, top speed is not that important, just would like to be able to outrun storms if needed, so we figure 25-50HP. We're looking for reliability, Ease of access to the cockpit, ease of maintenance, and value.

Appreciate any input. THANKS.
Ron

[Moe]

IMHO planning on "outrunning storms" is poor seamanship and foolhardy. Storms can easily move at twice or more a Mac's speed with 50HP motor, so even in the best case of them approaching off your stern as you're heading in, you're not always going to win that race. You have even less of a chance when they're out of sight on the other side, or on either side, of where you need to go for safe harbor.

Seaworthiness includes preparing your boat AND CREW for handling storms. Lines led aft to the cockpit (including a downhaul for hanked on foresails), practicing reefing regularly, securing cargo, buttoning up the cabin hatches, learning how to heave to, and other skills, will serve you much better than banking on a large motor get you home ahead of a storm.

You don't need enough horsepower to empty the water ballast under way. It empties just fine on the trailer at the ramp. You DO need enough thrust to maneuver all that freeboard at low speeds, especially when docking in higher winds.

A 15 HP, long-shaft, electric-start Honda should be all you need if you primarily sail. It has a 12 amp alternator for battery charging, a bit more than some 50HP motors, but not as much as some in the 18-20 amp range. It's even available with Power Tilt, in which case it comes with a larger diameter, slightly lower pitched prop (better for a Mac). The same motor is available in a more expensive, higher-revving 20HP version. Both are lighter than the 165 pound Tohatsu 50 HP carbed two-stroke the 26X was originally designed for.

That's my input. As you might expect, others may differ.

--
Moe

[beene]

Question

Why are you buying a Powersailor vs a more conventional sailboat?

Is it just for outrunning a storm?

Just curious.

G

[bastonjock]

as a wannabee boat owner i looked around for a boat and found the mac26x to suit my requirements,as a first boat i find she fulfills my dreams.

hopefully as time goes on i will gain the experience and the knowledge to become a good sailor

i find my 50hp big foot yammaha does the job nicely thank you

i new nothing about sailing untill this summer,i still dont know a lot and it reflects in my posts,but by asking questions im learning,guys like moe teach guys like me to think a bit about it before you do it

if you could fit 100 hp engines on to your transome that is no guarrantee of being able to outrun a storm,what happens if you run out of fuel or your engine packs up?

im want to modify my boat so that i can sail her safely

welcome to the forum mate,you have made a good choice of boat and there is not a better place to find out about how she performs or how to modify her

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

I would never put anything less than a 50 on an X, it is the motor the boat was designed for. You will not gain any sailing advantage with a smaller motor and you give up all the powerboat advantages designed into the boat.

These days it would be a 4 stroke 50, the brand really doesn't matter much, pick the one with the best support in your area. This is the best combination for fuel economy, ease of maintenance and long term value of the boat. None of the available 50 hp motors will impact the ease of access to the cockpit. The X has plenty of space back there. It narrows the field some, but you might want to only look at 4 stroke 50hp motors that swing a 14" prop. These make the boat handle better at low speeds.

Now if it were me repowerering my boat, after spending 7 years with a Tohatsu 50hp 2 stroke, I would not put anything smaller than a 70hp motor on my X. I would choose a 4 stroke over any of today's 2 strokes. While the Tohatsu and Evinrude 2 strokes are far better than my old one, I still would just rather pass on the whole separate need for oil thing and I don't see the small weight advantage as a big deal.

I'm impressed with the performance of the new Mercury 75hp reported here, and I also think the new Honda 75 looks very promising on paper. Both are 1500cc motors which look to give great performance. The extra weight of these motors is easily offset by making smart choices on the placement of water and batteries (and even fuel). The Honda is very light to start with. I don't think I would spend the extra money for the 90hp version of the Honda which is the same physical motor. I want a bigger block motor for quieter operation in the mid RPMs, not top end max horsepower. I think I would get all the performance I need in the 75.

http://www.honda-marine.com/new_model.html

With a 50hp the X is just short of the needed thrust to truely get out of it's own hole, particularly with a multiday cruising load.

For the first time I experienced what is possible on a X this last week. I met Dano from this board up here in Seattle on Tuesday to help him sort out the used X he had just bought on Monday. Once we had the mess of all the loose parts installed, the mast and sails up, and the rest of the equipment gone through, we put the boat in the water. It has a older 90hp Mercury two stroke (it also has a 50 gallon fuel tank up under the vee berth). Once we finally got fuel from the tank primed to the motor (It's a long hose run to pump with the bulb) the motor started easily and ran well.

We left the dock at the Mercer Island boat launch on Lake Washington and headed north under the East Channel bridge cruising slowly until we were up by Luther Burbank Park. There we pulled the fins up and opened up the the 90 to see what she could do. For the first time in an X boat I could actually feel the bow clearly drop and the boat come up on plane. Unfortunately the GPS that came with the boat didn't have batteries in it so I can't say exactly what our speed was, but comparing to my boat's look and feel I would guess we were doing between 18 and 20 knots. The best my 50hp will do is 16 knots.

It is just this little bit more speed that is required to truely get the an X up on plane. I think it will get there with any of the 70+hp motors available today. I would not re-power my boat with anything smaller.

[kziadie]

Question
Why are you buying a Powersailor vs a more conventional sailboat?
Is it just for outrunning a storm?
Just curious.

I tend to agree with Moe... to answer your question I would say, trailerability, flexible draft and cost. Yes, it is nice to be able to crank up the motor and fly when the wind has left for the day or if you have to be at a destination at a certain time, but if I could have gotten those features in a cruising boat that sails better than the Mac but could only putter around at 5 or 6 knots under power I wouldnt have bought my M. To the best of my knowledge though, such an animal doesnt exist.

Kelly

[Phillip]

I am not a one-eye narrow sighted sort of bloke, but there is only one answer to your question

Evinrude E-tech

You decide on the size to meet your needs.
Go to your Evinrude dealer and get the DVD. I know it's promotional, but it does explain the differences between it and 4 strokes and other 2 strokes.
I have used Granada, Mercruiser, Johnson, Tohatsu over the past 35yrs and they are all good....can't fault them.....but the E-Tech is in a totally different class.
And remember, the only reason why some dealers don't like them is because he can't get a dealership in them, or he can make more money from selling you another brand.
Cheers
Phillip

[beene]

Hey Kelly ..

to answer your question I would say, trailerability, flexible draft and cost.

I was asking "captronr" just so I could better understand what he was looking for, not disagreeing with Moe.

I don't have an X, and am very happy with my 75, so do not plan to ever re-power.

I am very much in DD's camp, however, he did miss quote the specs for the current Merc 75 vs that of the Honda. The Merc has 1732cc vs the Honda with only 1496cc. Mine is a 2005 and has 1596cc and I am convinced that cc is king when it comes to pushing these boats up onto a plane without breaking a sweat. It would seem that HP after that, is more a function of how fast is too fast. Like how the Merc 75 has the same block as the 115, ie a detuned 115 in disguise. Also the bore and stroke of the Merc is flat 82x82, which I have heard is also better for torque.

So Ron, what do YOU want the PowerSailor for? It does not sound like you want or care about planing. As Moe says, outrunning a storm is not good planning per say. You also sound as though you would not care about being able to empty the ballast tank while on the water. I am curious as to what caught your interest in the Mac PowerSailor.

G

[jasper]

I replaced an 18HP Nissan with a 25HP Yamaha high thrust. It works great for me. With ballast full it tops out at about 9kts (on GPS), tank 1/3 full it gets 11kts and I would expect about 12-13kts with tank empty.
It is cheap to run and very reliable.
In worsening conditions, it is good to know I can get at least 1 1/2 times more speed than sailboats with inboard motors which generally have a top speed of 5-6kts.
The high thrust is great for maneuvering at lower rpm's and can stop on a dime when thrown in reverse.

[captronr]

Well, to clarify............ And I thank all of you for your inputs already.

Background: I'm retired, and have sailed a 16ft day sailor for 5 years. I'm still a rookie, and more into cruising. I want comfort and convenience. I first saw a 26X in Seattle about 99, and have been drooling ever since.

Saying I wanted to outrun a storm is probably not a good statement. If it's bad weather, we won't be out most likely. I do want the ability to motor at a decent speed without shouting over the motor (we used to own a ski boat, so I know what that's like).

We plan to travel with the X and use it as an RV on the road. The way it sits on the trailer, plus the layout, and the dual functionality (although not the best at either) sold me on the X. I know the M is faster, but I don't like the layout, and I'm not convinced the daggerboard would survive KS shallow waters. And a good used X is cheaper than an M.

Now that we have the time, I'm jumping for the X.

I think I'm convinced now to get a 50HP, if nothing else so I can have some speed without running WOT, and for resale.

Again, I thank you for your inputs.

Ron

[bscott]

We're in the same boat-retiring next year. I went for an 01 X for all the reasons you mentioned, traded out the existing 40 HP Tohatsu for an E-tec 60 'cause our home base is in Colorado and we lose 20% HP at altitude. I wanted some motoring performance with the grand kids, fuel mapping which allows for altitude differences, relative light weight for sailing and trailer balance, and fuel efficient/quiet operation. Expensive but I will get some of it back on trade.

I really considered a E-tec 75 but the weight and price told me "NO" as I can't see us cruising much above 25 HP speed.

Good luck with your choice.

Bob

[vkmaynard]

We will be replacing our Honda 50 with a Suzuki 70 next year. The 50 does not get the boat on plane (17.5 mph max). Once you get accustom to a sailboat with power, it's hard to imagine a slow sailboat.

More IS better:) Take Billy for example; I am sure at this very moment he is in his shop try to figure out how to add a Suzuki 300 Hp motor to "XX".

Victor

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Jasper,

I hope from your mention of a speed with the ballast tank 1/3 full that you don't operate the boat that way. There is nothing more dangerous in these boats than motoring around with a partially full ballast tank. It's all or nothing when it comes to ballast. Operating with a partialy full tank is just asking for a disaster as the weight will shift to the worst place at the worst time.

[Catigale]

I would definitely have done a 60 (same weight and size at my 50 Merc Bigfoot EFI) and probably a 75 with a big prop 14x13 maybe??

For me the deciding factor might be if you can really hand start a 75 vs a 60. The 50 is easy to do, Im not sure about a 75

Beene - maybe you can let us know on that one.

I will never buy a carbed engine for a boat again. EFI Rules!!

[beene]

Beene - maybe you can let us know on that one.

Ya right.....

I called the Merc rep and asked about the pull start possiblilties. They told me that the block is too big and has the ability to "rip my arm from its socket"

I remember kick starting a 600cc dirt bike and the compression kicked back.... sent my leg the oposite direction with such force it almost tore it out of its socket.

Imagine pulling hard on a 1600cc 4 cyl engine, while tiered and frustrated, purhaps not paying as much attention as you should, and the engine pulls back away from you with big snap....

So Steph.... when can I expect you to come over and give her a whirl....

G