Tattoo Yachts

[mastreb]

I don't think this is so far out of reach for the person with the right knowledge base and technical skill (some on this forum, I would hazard to guess) and attention to details. All the basics to accomplish that are quite knowable - just apply already-known marine architecture principles.

Sure its possible, and the math isn't difficult. But adding length also means adding wetted surface which means drag which means you need to loft more sail which means a proportionately larger sail area, which means larger mast, upsized rigging, stronger chainplates... It's not JUST the naval architecture that goes out of balance, its everything.

A gaff rig _could_ make a lot of that simpler by not requiring any mast or rigging upsizing to loft more sail _and_ move the CE aft, and you _could_ replace the daggerboard with a glassed-in shoal keel to rebalance the CLP and helm. But then you're no longer able to power. Honestly I think you could get away with just a slightly longer and heavier daggerboard without any safety or significant performance issues. So suree, it's possible.

I've seen two Arkansas good-old-boys turn two Caprice Classics, one front-ended and the other rear-ended, into a single perfectly good car in two days, and that includes all the soldering of wires. They even made sure to pick two of the same color so they'd only have to paint over the ground smooth welds.

I think anyone who _could_ do the proper design work to lengthen a mac could also do the design work to just build a hull from scratch the length they want

And yes, I do need more room. The admiral has approved this boat for when we have a spare $200K sitting around: http://www.evolving-oceanis.com

So I'll be a Mac sailor for the foreseeable future

[seahouse]

A scratch build would cost WAY more time and money than a stretch Mac iL though.

Nice Beneteau. They are popular around here. I actually spend more time by far sailing a Beneteau 34 in the summer than I do on my Own Mac.

or ... not sure which.

[Highlander]

U can very easily extend ur hul 2-3ft by just adding a swim plattform which will also let u extend ur eng. further aft away from the helmans seat , these swim platforms bolt directly onto the transom & r formed to fit ur hul & transom as a perfect mold extension of ur hull design I have been pondering on this one for a while do to the cost ! , will post the link later tonight or should I say this morn when I get home if C.R.S does not kick in first

J
PS Is a longer wetted surface not supose to increase hull speed in a sail boat pretty sure i read up on that some where

[mastreb]

PS Is a longer wetted surface not supose to increase hull speed in a sail boat pretty sure i read up on that some where

A longer waterline increases the hull speed or potential speed of the boat, but it also increases wetted surface drag, which means you need more power aka more sail area to get that hull speed out of the boat.

So you're right, but so am I

I've been noodling on a fold down swim platform as well, something that would cover the open transom to keep those big following waves out (had a spot of trouble with that this weekend, got the well washed out), provide a swim platform, and a gangplank to the docks. Just haven't figured out how to get the giant outboard out of the way of it.

[mastreb]

Mods, we might want to move this "Mac Limo" digression outside the Tattoo forum...

If someone were seriously to consider stretching a Mac, I think they'd be much better off starting with an X rather than an M. That way they could make the cut directly behind the mast but before the centerboard, cutting diagonally if necessary, and move the centerboard aft with the stretch. Doing two cuts, one before the centerboard and one abaft it of the same length (I would make the second cut to lengthen the cockpit) would allow you to keep a perfect CLP.

Then by converting to a Gaff rig, which would move the CE aft by five feet without having to move the mast step, you could keep the boat perfectly balanced. This would allow up to a five foot total stretch, resulting in a 31' boat. The gaff rig can loft enough additional sail power to compensate for the lengthened waterline without upgrading the rigging. With a gaff rig you would also be able to shorten the mast by 2', which is enough that with the 5' stretch, you could simply lower the mast and leave it stepped at the tabernacle rather than moving it to the pulpit while trailering with a legal 4' overhang just like the M, which would make for a far more convenient trailer sailor. The stretch would include additional water ballast tankage to keep the center of gravity and center of buoyancy correct.

You'd have to have serious fiberglassing skills. Maybe it's a job for Dave B.

[fdeoreo]

Hello All,

As for the Tattoo I am anxiously awaiting the 22, not longer but shorter. As they say, everyone has different needs. I did sell my Macgregor 26X recently and am enjoying a West Wight Potter now, waiting for the dream of a Tattoo 22.

However, I thought this may have been posted here years ago but not sure and just wanted to point out the following account of a stretched Macgregor, not an X or M but an example of a beautiful boat and excellent craftsmanship:

http://ezrecord.com/yumikomaru/index.html

francis joshua

[NiceAft]

Francis,

I have never seen this before. Thanks for the posting.

Ray

[Ixneigh]

I've seen that mod somewhere in the past.
Nice job

IMHO...
Wetted area for three foot extension is minimal.
Boat would sail and motor at displacement speeds faster, but not plane any faster...
The ce is an issue, but no more sail area would be needed. If you cut infront of the daggerboard, that may fix the Ce issue, and give a larger for triangle jib area. (Not sure hull shape would really allow this) Plus more foredeck. Cutter anyone? Mast rake plus additional roach would fix any other issues, but say goodbye to economical stock sail options.
The biggest issue pita would be the liner. A substantial part would have to be removed, and put back. Not to mention cosmetic finishing of the joint, since you would want your Mac limo to look just as awesome as it would be inside with a real head and shower stall! And three extra feet on the other side of the boat too.
The basic glass work would be reasonable. Frameing between the halves would support a mold made from Formica to lay glass over. Vinyl ester resin approached epoxy for adhesion to existing polyester fiberglass, and most areas could be glassed inside and out, excepting the ballast tank, and you could Just use a bit more glass on the outside. It would be fine. You'll need that ballast extra to counteract the two jibs you'll no doubt want to install
Of course this mod is maybe not even be possible, and not for the faint of heart. I might be inclined to think more about it with an insurance totaled boat, picked up cheap. Fire damaged, sunk, storm damaged ect.
I find the size perfect for me now, so it's academic for me, but fun to think about.
Ix

[kmclemore]

!	kmclemore:
	I've moved the "website issues" comments in this thread to a new thread as it was diverging from the discussion of the boats themselves and deserved it's own thread. It's over here: Tattoo Yachts Website Issues

[mastreb]

The increase in wetted area drag is about 15%, which would have to be compensated for by a corresponding 15% increase in sail area if you wanted to keep the same light-air performance. The advantage of a longer waterline is not that you get extra speed for free, it's that you get a higher top-end.

Concur that this kind of experimentation is best done with a salvage hull. If one were to find a hull that thieves had cut the transom off of to take the outboard, it would be worth doing.

[SKJOLD]

Just in case Laura is still following this thread, let me add my name to the list of people who would definitely buy an even larger version of a trailerable MacGregor powersailor. Even 28 feet would add a lot of interior size and 30 or more would be nirvana. I understand the concerns about the beam size and trailering restrictions, but maybe with a bit of wizardry, these challenges could be solved.

Anyway, I also do appreciate the new generation of MacGregor builders participating on this forum.... As a testamonial, I've owned dozens of boats including some larger than my 26X and I've never kept them more than a few years typically. I'm now on my 11th year of 26X ownership and unless Laura is successful in building a larger one, I probably will never sell it.

Thanks, Dimitri

The Hobie 33 also has a 8' beam and is a hull of a sailboat which under certain conditions can sail as fast as a MacGregor can power. There are some videos on Youtube showing them sailing as fast as 15-20 MPH. I think a 30' bluewater version of the mac with a 8' beam and a 3000 lb empty displacement is doable. This will give the space for a roomy enclosed head like the Mac X with sink & shower, workable nab station, and a storage locker. As mentioned earlier I used to live aboard my old M26X which was doable but I would have loved to have a nav station and storage locker. The Hobie 33's 400 plus Sq foot sail plan allows it to get on plane. I was thinking a bulbed daggerboard would also allow for a little more sail area. The Mac26X/M is an awesome design that I think still has unrealized potential that only requires a few tweaks to make it the ultimate trailer sailor.

[dlandersson]

I'm in the line for a slightly bigger Tattoo/Mac.

I can also see where it will never happen - the manufacturing efficiency is for a 26 and 22 foot model. If a 30 (approx.) version is produced, Tattoo is faced with selling those and the new owners putting their older Mac's on the market - which they then compete with for sales in the 26 foot market.

[Russ]

The Hobie 33 also has a 8' beam and is a hull of a sailboat which under certain conditions can sail as fast as a MacGregor can power. There are some videos on Youtube showing them sailing as fast as 15-20 MPH. I think a 30' bluewater version of the mac with a 8' beam and a 3000 lb empty displacement is doable. This will give the space for a roomy enclosed head like the Mac X with sink & shower, workable nab station, and a storage locker. As mentioned earlier I used to live aboard my old M26X which was doable but I would have loved to have a nav station and storage locker. The Hobie 33's 400 plus Sq foot sail plan allows it to get on plane. I was thinking a bulbed daggerboard would also allow for a little more sail area. The Mac26X/M is an awesome design that I think still has unrealized potential that only requires a few tweaks to make it the ultimate trailer sailor.

Didn't Art Kelly buy the Hobie 33 molds and was going to produce a new boat from them?
I've seen a couple of Hobie 33's for sale. Tempting. Can even put one on a trailer.

--Russ

[SKJOLD]

I'm in the line for a slightly bigger Tattoo/Mac.

I can also see where it will never happen - the manufacturing efficiency is for a 26 and 22 foot model. If a 30 (approx.) version is produced, Tattoo is faced with selling those and the new owners putting their older Mac's on the market - which they then compete with for sales in the 26 foot market.

Well, it looks like I have four choices:

1. Find a used M26X or M26M to modify - Find a way to add a sink and shower to existing head (easier for the M26X than the M26M)

2. Find a Hobie 33 to modify.

3. See if Tattoo can build me a new T26 to custom specifications - Beefier hull for blue water sailing. Add sink and shower to head. Add a hanging locker somewhere. Add a weighted dagger board and increase sail area. Redesign the transom to include a swim platform and additional storage.

4. Design and build my own boat from scratch.

I do like the sail plan of the new T26. Is it possible to have one custom built?

[BOAT]

A shower is an interesting thing that is in my opinion essential, but also a huge waste of space for something that is used for only 10 minutes a day or every other day.

The shower should be treated like one of your tools; something you pull out when you need it and put away when not in use. The only things that should have dedicate floor space in your boat are things that are used several times a day; (galley, sink, reefer, head, etc . . .)

The perfect place for a shower on the 26M is right at the foot of the ladder. So for ten minutes you block the companionway to hang the shower curtain and get clean. Big deal - the companionway will still be closed anyway if your just getting out of bed or getting ready to go to bed anyways, so why not use that space so you can clean up. That way the head is still free so someone else can crap while your in the shower.

My shower "box" will cover that little floor space at the base of the ladder and the lid of the "box" will attach to the sliding top - that's where all the head room is in a MAC. The rear berth is already set up as the best place for holding tanks and a pump. All sailboats use a pump for the shower drain - they are available from RULE and others for reasonable prices.

Re-creating the entire boat just to have a shower that will be used for ten minutes a day seems extreme to me, but it's only an opinion. The X has a good set-up if you must have a dedicated shower space.