MacGregorSailors.com

Starscream wrote: ↑Sat May 23, 2020 3:59 pm Just to bump this thread. It's worth a read.

Thanks for the bump it was a good read, I bet the 40C / 100F for an hour played a big role.

Hi Fran Trapp (& All)

I hope this post to your thread all these years late finds you well, healthy and happy.

Thank you for posting this thread, your candor and your honesty in describing what occurred in your incident.
It is very appreciated.
Thank You!

This thread again proves the lasting value of this MacGregorSailors.com forum.
The lessons and experiences live on and are of value to those that have followed!

The discussions of the righting moment of the filled vs. infilled ballast tank, the effect of water ingress via an open after market portal, the stowage of excess gear on board obstructing visual confirmation of condition, prior potential rain water ingress into the cabin, the value of AYA training, Man Over Board drill training and the links to tragic instances (the Negligent Drunken Operation of a Grossly Overloaded Vessel and the Tragic Consequences on 07/04/2002 which is still commonly talked about 20 years later…) are greatly appreciated.

We also very much appreciate suggestions of the Previous Owners (K9Kampers) which were to:

1) take the time with them to walk through the boat and systems prior to taking delivery of Over Easy
===>>> This was and still is SO VERY MUCH APPRECIATED!!!

2) take time to READ THROUGH THE MACGREGOR OWNERS MANUAL

3) join the MacGregorSailors.com forum!

These aspects help us to get started on the right foot with appreciating our Mac26X and the enormous amount of safe enjoyment it has provided to us in the past 18/months!!!

We are very appreciative of this unique forum and intrinsic value it brings to this unique boating community.
Thank You All!!!

Best Regards
Over Easy
fudt

Very good information. Thanks for the bump.

This thread demonstrates the value of 20 years of knowledge on this forum. Some threads need reviving.

This was one of the rare Mac capsizings. A testament that the stock Mac is an extremely safe boat.

Also the danger of adding those opening portholes. I'll never install one...ever.

Safety minded captains are important.

I have two opening ports on Nice Aft. They stay closed while under power and under sail. They are opened when docked, so we have cross ventilation.

I did once forget to close them while sailing, and when we were heeling about 20 degrees, I remembered they were open. I had my wife immediately go below and close them. I have never made that blunder again; the ports, not the wife.

When she again entered the cockpit, I told her there was a nautical expression for water entering through an opened port………SINKING!

I do not regret having them installed. They have functioned well going on eighteen years.

As I stated at the beginning, the captain must be safety minded at all times. Be attentive of your boats vulnerabilities.

NiceAft wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:45 pm As I stated at the beginning, the captain must be safety minded at all times. Be attentive of your boats vulnerabilities.

Checking portholes should be part of a startup checklist. Not a problem for a prudent captain.

Looks like there was a link to photos that no longer works. Anyone know if the photos still exist anywhere?

I’m having trouble picturing what these infamous portholes look like. Are we talking standard rectangular acrylic opening port lights with a gasket? Installing those below the heeled waterline seems insane to me (I know they were installed by a previous owner before the OP). The rate that one of those would let in water would be measured in gallons/sec, not gallons/min.

A lot of modern big boats have windows/port lights in the hull below the deck-hull joint, but I think they are always fixed (non-opening), and even then relatively high on the hull.

Wyb2 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:41 am Looks like there was a link to photos that no longer works. Anyone know if the photos still exist anywhere?

I’m having trouble picturing what these infamous portholes look like. Are we talking standard rectangular acrylic opening port lights with a gasket? Installing those below the heeled waterline seems insane to me (I know they were installed by a previous owner before the OP). The rate that one of those would let in water would be measured in gallons/sec, not gallons/min.

A lot of modern big boats have windows/port lights in the hull below the deck-hull joint, but I think they are always fixed (non-opening), and even then relatively high on the hull.

I’m a believer in your boat, your rules; but I’m with you on installing operable portholes below the heeled waterline. Not gonna happen on my boat.

The hull windows on modern cruisers are fixed. The only operable ports on modern cruisers that could potentially take on big water in heavy seas are the escape hatches on a big cat (as far as I know). And, since they are a safety item, not a ventilation item, they are far less likely to be left open accidentally.

We discussed the value of mods in another thread. If you were boat shopping, how would you value operable ports below the heeled waterline?

Wyb2 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 7:41 am Looks like there was a link to photos that no longer works. Anyone know if the photos still exist anywhere?

A lot of modern big boats have windows/port lights in the hull below the deck-hull joint, but I think they are always fixed (non-opening), and even then relatively high on the hull.

Yea, photobucket went offline with so many great photos.

Several captains have installed opening portholes. As mentioned. traditionally, windows on the hull are not opening. I would guess there is some ABYC standard that prohibits opening portholes on the side of the hull.

I don't know how this story ended with insurance, but modifying like this could void your insurance.

A prudent captain would ensure openings are closed and watertight. Especially if healing could put them underwater.

The porthole in this story I believe was installed like below in the aft berth area. I've seen others ABOVE the gunwale which would be MUCh safer.

opening ports below the deck line r know as submarine ports for a reason lol whether on the outside of the hull or in the cockpit . Alot of 32ft & larger sail boats have them in the cockpit but does,nt matter much if u close them & leave the walk in cabin entrance hatch wide open that,s why the has a step over entrance a safety up-grade from the if I had an I,d make a half entrance hatch to close off the bottom half an easy added safety mod think following sea,s or even a knock down , when I made my two piece plexi-glass entrance hatch I can just install the bottom half for added safety the top of each half is re-enforced with 2" x 1/4" Alum flat bar on both sides










as seen here u can see the stick on neoprene rubber tape as a gasket had two purposes stop water intrusion & cushion the joint



the only vents I don,t worry about r my two roof top cabin cowl vents as they r installed into my self fabricated doral boxes so they drain out externally

all hatches should b checked for being secured before departure more so if u sail alone cause if the Sh_t hits the deck u r likely gonna b to busy dousing sails & gear before u get a chance to close any opening ports or hatches

anyways it was a sad story at least no one was seriously injured if at all

J

Jimmyt wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 8:44 am
I’m a believer in your boat, your rules; but I’m with you on installing operable portholes below the heeled waterline. Not gonna happen on my boat.

The hull windows on modern cruisers are fixed. The only operable ports on modern cruisers that could potentially take on big water in heavy seas are the escape hatches on a big cat (as far as I know). And, since they are a safety item, not a ventilation item, they are far less likely to be left open accidentally.

We discussed the value of mods in another thread. If you were boat shopping, how would you value operable ports below the heeled waterline?

About as much as a hole in the hull. That is, a ‘must-fix’ before the boat goes near water.

To expand on water ingress a little because I got curious - I plugged some numbers into a couple online calculators. A 6”x12” opening at 3” w.c. (so just fully submerged) would take on about 11 gal/sec, or about 100 lbs of water per second.

Russ wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 11:53 am
Yea, photobucket went offline with so many great photos.

Several captains have installed opening portholes. As mentioned. traditionally, windows on the hull are not opening. I would guess there is some ABYC standard that prohibits opening portholes on the side of the hull.

I don't know how this story ended with insurance, but modifying like this could void your insurance.

A prudent captain would ensure openings are closed and watertight. Especially if healing could put them underwater.

The porthole in this story I believe was installed like below in the aft berth area. I've seen others ABOVE the gunwale which would be MUCh safer.

Thanks, that clarifies things a little. Higher than I was picturing in my mind, but still closer to the water than I would be OK with.

Russ wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 5:57 am

NiceAft wrote: ↑Wed Apr 20, 2022 7:45 pm As I stated at the beginning, the captain must be safety minded at all times. Be attentive of your boats vulnerabilities.

Checking portholes should be part of a startup checklist. Not a problem for a prudent captain.

Russ,

You are correct, and that is why I posted

the captain must be safety minded at all times. Be attentive of your boats vulnerabilities.

I learned my lesson. I had forgotten one of Murphy’s rules, “if something can go wrong, it will.”, so check everything beforehand.


Starboard port located above and a little aft of the M’s dinette table.


The port port is located opposite the starboard port and above the Galley.

Thanks for the bump. I read the thread. Lots of good stuff here.

One thing I did not see mentioned by the OP or asked by others was the position of the blade.

If the blade was up (or stuck), it might explain the sloppy way and ease-of-capsize.

And, since the boat served a dual-purpose under more than one skipper, I can plausibly see that - even if the OP did release the keel line - the keel could have gotten stuck and not lowered correctly without her knowing it.

NiceAft wrote: ↑Thu Apr 21, 2022 12:22 pm
Starboard port located above and a little aft of the M’s dinette table.


The port port is located opposite the starboard port and above the Galley.

Ray, I've never seen water splash that area to any degree. I'm sure even if that were left open it wouldn't cause the issue the OP experienced. Like I said, above the gunwale is MUCH safer.

And you are one of the most prudent sailor I know. I'm not worried about you.