MacGregorSailors.com

Rick,

That was my concern based on my understanding of the 1-2-Both-Off switch useage. And thus I thought that putting the switch in the cockpit would make it easier to see/remember/use. But if there are "automatic" switches than I won't worry about it (yes I will...I worry about everything).

RickJ, I will take you up on that sailing offer...but I probably won't be available until mid/late July.

Thanks everyone for the words of wisdom. More for me to consider in this future mod.

Thanks,
Jim

I agree, using a simple 4 way switch without any other electronic devices is the way to go. Run battery 1 one day and battery 2 the next. Be careful not to ever switch the batteries off when running as it can blow the alternator. best not to use the switch when running at all, although the good switches have a "First Make" feature that safeguards this by never disconnecting the power entirely when switching.

I have never had a problem in 15 years this way, and there are no other combiners or isolators that think they are smarter than you are. Of course this system is great for standard day sailing and short cruises, but I would certainly go to a more comprehensive system for extended cruising with a bank of deep cycle or other house batteries may be warranted.

Here's another vote for the VSR / Combiner set - up.

"Set it, and forget it!"

JC

live2shift wrote:I agree, using a simple 4 way switch without any other electronic devices is the way to go. Run battery 1 one day and battery 2 the next. Be careful not to ever switch the batteries off when running as it can blow the alternator. best not to use the switch when running at all, although the good switches have a "First Make" feature that safeguards this by never disconnecting the power entirely when switching.

I have never had a problem in 15 years this way, and there are no other combiners or isolators that think they are smarter than you are. Of course this system is great for standard day sailing and short cruises, but I would certainly go to a more comprehensive system for extended cruising with a bank of deep cycle or other house batteries may be warranted.

You dont HAVE to use a VSR if you dont wan't to...But it is a very reliable device. Nothing to be afraid of. Just make sure you charge the batteries manually (or use the parallel switch) if you opt out of using a VSR.

There is no downside to the 3 switch solution. With the 1 big switch solution you have (sometimes complicated) directions and cautions, some of which you state above.

The 3 switch setup, anyone who ever used a light switch is over-qualified to operate - 'turn on and forget' is the only direction. Well, optionally 'turn off if you want to'. Best part is - no blown alternator since you never ever have to touch the switch. Add a VSR if you want combined charging.

I also have the 4-position switch but my charger has two twin leads. One for the starter battery and one for the house battery. I turn the switch to the off position just before closing the hatch to head home. The only item that can drawing 12v while I'm away is the memory power lead for the AM/FM radio.

The PO had a rats nest connected to the house battery (at least every hot lead had its own fuse) but there were so many wires, pulling the batteries for the season and connecting everything back up in the Spring was a PITA. This Spring's mod was a common NEG bus bar and every wire is now labeled. Next on the mod list is to replace the rest of the individual toys' hot leads to a second panel. Getting the wires uo the liner looks to be a PITA so I'll probably put the panel were the current individual switched are located-to the left of the grab pole attached to the galley (on a 26X).

We mounted the selector switch at the port side of the ladder and the solar regulator right under the ladder, thought I would have to make some kind of protection but we have lived on the boat off and on for over six months now and it's never been a problem.
Always start the motor with the start battery and then switch to both while it is running and then back to the two house batteries (when the motor is off) which are kept charged by the two 65w solar panels.

WARNING

Long winded post/questions from a guy who has spent the past few weeks reading 6,374 posts and several articles on electrical systems and battery set-ups but am still confused. My apologies.

Thanks to all who have posted info and recommendations.

For background info here is my tentative plan to upgrade my battery's this Decmember when I fly back to the US for a couple of weeks. I currently have the factory battery and a single on/off switch. The battery is out of the boat and in my Dad's garage. Since I have to put it back in place anyway I am thinking of upgrading my system to increase my battery capacity.

I am thinking of having 2 batteries. I guess one will be "start" and one will be "house". If possible I will use my current factory battery as the start and get a new battery to be the house (or should I bite the bullet and get two new ones?).

And I will go with the 3-switch system with a VSR...which I will install down by the battery compartment and not in the cockpit as originally discussed.

Not planning on installing shore power or any AC battery chargers or any built in inverters or anything like that. My needs are engine tilt/start, VHF, GPS, lights, and some 12v accessories like fans, small TV, recharging cell phones (and possibly laptop). No microwaves, refrigerators, windlasses, etc... Cruising goals...for now...are short term (4-5 days max with probably some engine run time each day). No solar...for now.

I don't want to get too complicated or expensive in this mod. And mostly I want something that I can do relatively quickly as I only have about 10-12 days and don't want to waste any sailing opportunities.

1. Is the 3-switch system with a VSR (like in Paul S's picture) a single unit or is it actually 3 seperate swtiches and VSR and then just mount them together?

2. I assume that there are leads from my battery going to the engine for tilt and start, another set going from my battery to the DC control panel, and a final set coming to the battery from the alternator. Does that sound right?

3. With 2 batterys and three switches I would have to take the leads going to the engine and attach them to the start switch. I would take the leads going to the DC control panel and attach them to house switch. And the leads coming from the alternator would get attached to the VSR. The third switch would tie the house and start (similar to the diagram on the WM page posted by Paul S). And then tie the appropriate battery to the appropriate switch.

4. In my current set-up the fuel guage and depth guage are not on a switch on my DC panel. When my current battery is switched "on" those guages get power. Since these are not on my DC panel (and I don't want to spend the time to rewire those...at least at this time) I suppose I will have to turn the house switch off when leaving the boat.

What supplies will I need to do this? What wiring will I need to do?

That should do it for now. I know that there will be more questions to come.

Sorry again about the long-windedness and asking multiple questions in a single post.

Thanks,
Jim

My unit I bought as a single unit, but is actually 3 switches and a vsr already wired up correctly. Many panels are one unit. No doubt you could make your own with 3 switches and a VSR.

I do not believe west sells my switch anymore (but it is available elsewhere no doubt). The BEP switches got great reviews from Practical Sailor in the past as well. No doubt WM sells something similar to my switch now (I dont have a catalog in front of me now)

I just bought some bulk wire and wire ends, and made my own cables so I didnt have long cables to deal with.

The switch will have (should anyway, the BEP did) very good directions on what to hook up and where. IIRC, it was VERY easy to do in my case. 2 wires from the motor (+, -) and same from the house panel.


Paul

boaters world has my switch http://www.boatersworld.com/product/196 ... -isolators

and some info from the mfr

http://www.bep.co.nz/Dual-Battery-Charg ... -1464.html

I think this is the Dual Battery Charging Cluster Switch from BEP.

I wonder if this cluster would fit better?

Haven't found a price yet.

I am starting to get excited about this project (I know...it doesn't take much). I have almost 7 more months to plan this...not sure if that will be enough time.

Now I have to figure out which battery (or batteries) I want and where I can get it (them). Does anyone have info on what size batteries will fit in the battery compartment?

Thanks,
Jim

Paul,

Thanks. You were faster on the trigger than I was. Did you have any problems getting the square cluster in that compartment? Would the straight one fit better?

Thanks,
Jim

Another question about this diagram of the cluster switch.

The lines coming from the outboard...do they represent the starter? If so, then how is the alternator depicted?

Is there normally seperate leads/wires for the starter and the alternator? Little confused on how the alternator feeds into this switch.

Thanks,
Jim

c130king wrote:I am thinking of having 2 batteries. I guess one will be "start" and one will be "house". If possible I will use my current factory battery as the start and get a new battery to be the house (or should I bite the bullet and get two new ones?). I am one of those drink no wine before its time, but be prepared to spend full retail when it does fail, but maybe you get a little warning and can shop - oh what the heck it isn't my money replace them both with deep cycles and use (I think it is Kevins,) port on even, starboard on odd day cycle

And I will go with the 3-switch system with a VSR...which I will install down by the battery compartment and not in the cockpit as originally discussed. location is good - the rest is preference so no recommendation or criticism

Not planning on installing shore power or any AC battery chargers or any built in inverters or anything like that. My needs are engine tilt/start, VHF, GPS, lights, and some 12v accessories like fans, small TV, recharging cell phones (and possibly laptop). No microwaves, refrigerators, windlasses, etc... Cruising goals...for now...are short term (4-5 days max with probably some engine run time each day). No solar...for now. Get a heavy duty 40 or 50 foot construction grade extension cord with multiple outlets and carry it for when you need 120v - like plugging in a battery charger or work light or power tool

I don't want to get too complicated or expensive in this mod. And mostly I want something that I can do relatively quickly as I only have about 10-12 days and don't want to waste any sailing opportunities.

1. Is the 3-switch system with a VSR (like in Paul S's picture) a single unit or is it actually 3 seperate swtiches and VSR and then just mount them together? I do not like this set up but I am also a very poor judge of women so ....

2. I assume that there are leads from my battery going to the engine for tilt and start, another set going from my battery to the DC control panel, and a final set coming to the battery from the alternator. Does that sound right? No not with a Merc, you should have one set of wires going to your engine (pos and neg) from the battery. They should be good quality, not extension cords or lamp cords AND substantial (about the size of a number 2 round pencil #8 or if the run is very long a bigger #6 - size of little finger) without a fuse. It will be fused at the input point of the motor (I keep meaning to get a spare fuse for my motor - you might want to do the same) From this power point, the motor will develop the tilt power, the instrumentation power (rpm, temp, tilt controls, and key and kill switches)and the engine starting requirements - hence the need for quality wiring and connections. The alternator will send back down these same wires the charging voltage - about 13.6 v to charge the 12.something batteries . the VSR will distribute it according to battery needs - and you will have a wire leading to your power distribution/switch panel.
3. With 2 batterys and three switches I would have to take the leads going to the engine and attach them to the start switch. I would take the leads going to the DC control panel and attach them to house switch. And the leads coming from the alternator would get attached to the VSR. The third switch would tie the house and start (similar to the diagram on the WM page posted by Paul S). And then tie the appropriate battery to the appropriate switch. This does not sound right to me - someone more familiar with 2 & 3 better way in but you should only have 1 set of wires coming and going between the motor and the batteries.
4. In my current set-up the fuel guage and depth guage are not on a switch on my DC panel. When my current battery is switched "on" those guages get power. Since these are not on my DC panel (and I don't want to spend the time to rewire those...at least at this time) I suppose I will have to turn the house switch off when leaving the boat. They are probably coming off your igniton switch, you really should at least trace them back to be sure they are fused and disconnectable IMHO

What supplies will I need to do this? What wiring will I need to do? In addition to those required, look at getting a can of liquid electric tape and covering any marginally protected joins, use ring terminals and crimp them well then cover with shrink tubing, yes you can use a lighter to shrink the tubing try not to set your self on fire though, and replace any questionable, cracking insulation, corrouded (sp?) connections etc or any that look like they will become.

That should do it for now. I know that there will be more questions to come.

Thanks,
Jim

If you want to reconside the three switch system, PM me and I will describe my simple set up and the reasons behind the choices but your choice is probably just as good maybe better, just more expensive.

Tang,

Thanks for the info. I think what you are saying about the wires to/from the engine makes sense and jives with the BEP diagram. The same wire that takes battery power to the engine brings alternator power to the battery.

The more I look at this the better it looks to me. The cluster switch is around $160. Not sure on the cost of new deep cycle battery yet (not even sure which type I want yet...). But otherwise it doesn't look like I will need much more. All the wires should already be in place...I just need to attach them to the correct place on the switch.

I will look at my cockpit instruments but right now all I have to control those guages is the key. Maybe I can install a simple fused switch of some sort right on the pedastal.

I don't normally slip my boat...but I do occassionally so when I do I plan to go with your recommendation of a HD extension cord and a battery charger (I will now put on my armour to protect myself against the flaming arrows that are winging my way).

Thanks,
Jim

Our Cruising helmsman had one of the best articles I have seen for boat electrics which could be easily modified to fit any size boat and any type of charging.
Best of all it is set and forget for switching and charging and very simple with some good ideas for all areas of the boat.
If you want Jim I can try and scan for you as there doesn't seem to be the facility to download direct from the magazine.
I do believe this article would help as it is very easy to follow.