Folding (flaking) the mainsail

Uncle Jim · Post by **Uncle Jim** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:40 pm

I've also been considering a flaking system and was wondering if anyone has tried the Dutchman system and what the disadvantages of it might be.

hmb-barry · Post by **hmb-barry** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:02 pm

More sail handling tips:

Most of my sailing is single handed - as a 63 year old f'rt - am not thrilled about hanging out on the topsides alone out there...
After I pull the main down with the down-haul line: grab and pull the leech (back end of sail) and wrap the down-haul line around the loose sail (like a cork-screw) - one, two or three times (depends on how hard the wind is blowing) - can put a few ties on the leech end also - all done from the cockpit . This almost always contains the sail enough till arrival at port.
The down-haul can also be used to hold the main in place before leaving port (wrap/tuck the down-haul in a manner - that one pull will free it completely), then remove the forward sail ties, when ready to raise main - remove back few ties, pull down-haul free which releases the sail, and raise main (always into the wind of course).
These methods work well on my Mac and as they did on my previous sail boats - all with larger mains than the Mac uses. The sailboat before I purchased my M26 was a 35 foot English steel (so-called) ocean cruiser-racer with a 335 sq. ft. main - twice the size of the M26's 170 sq. ft. main; and 3 or 4 times the sail cloth weight. Also can use the same methods on the jib - (I use hank-on jibs). I also use the jib down-haul as the cruising spinnaker pennant.

Barry L.
HUNERZ
Half Moon Bay, CA

davidbagnall · Post by **davidbagnall** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:17 pm

I tried the flaking thing and found it also a real pain. So I gather up the sail loosely and roll it up and then simply tie it to the boom. It took a few times to do it neatly but now I can get it done quite quickly and neatly. Its a bit hard to see in this pic but it was all I could find.

http://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1p0nT ... WZ41VFrS4w

jim nolan · Post by **jim nolan** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:44 pm

I have a 12 foot bungee cord attached were the boom meets the mast. When I drop the main, I swing the cord like a little girl swinging a jump rope to capture the sail. three or four wraps, and its good enough to get me back to the slip. I also have a pound and a half weight at the head of the sail to help it come down faster. jim nolan

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:07 pm

I have a Dutchman system. I am quite happy with it. The only downside is that you need to slack the topping lift just before the sail is almost all the way up, otherwise the monofillament lines pull on the grommets in the sail. In my case, I have the topping lift led aft, so it's a piece of cake. Very nice sail flake and the sail doesn't go all over the place when lowering. You basically just pull the sail down and straighten it out and it's perfectly flakd every time. I think this is better than lazy jacks wih one exception. If I had lazy jacks, I would also get a boom kicker. I don't like having a loose topping lift line just flying in the wind while sailing, but essentially it's just for cosmetic reasons. The topping lift is an integral part of the Dutchman. It does require modification to your sail. Probably not something that most would do themselves. Here are some pictures:

Leon

c130king · Post by **c130king** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:05 am

There is another system I have seen where the sail cover is physically attached to the boom. The LJ's are attached to the top of the sail cover and hold it open. The sail comes down and "flakes" into the sail cover. Then you can zip the top of the sail cover closed.

Anyone know the name of that system? It looks pretty nice in my mind.

Thanks,
Jim

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:14 am

It's called the stack pack. The sail does not flake inside the cover. It just drops inside it, any which way. Ok for Dacron sails, but not so great for laminates wich don't like wrinkles.

Leon

Uncle Jim · Post by **Uncle Jim** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:04 am

Leon, thanks for the pics of the Dutchman, new sails are in the planning stage for next season and a Dutchman will mostlikly be included.

One question though could not the mono lines be adjusted at the topping lift attachment points so as not to need the adjustment?

Jim

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:08 am

Jim,

The mono lines do adjust and need a one-time initial adjustment. However, those lines need to be tight to do their job. Once the sail is hoisted about 95% you run out of room so sail shape is affected by the lines & topping lift. At that point, you need to slack the topping lift which also slacks the mono lines. Up goes the sail with no affect of shape. You might be able to have a setting where it would be unaffected. In my case, I like the topping lift quite high when the sail is down. Before the Dutchman, I would also slack my topping lift to allow the sail to take hold the boom vs the TL. Makes for better sail shape. Running the TL control line aft is a fairly easy mod... basically same as running the halyard aft, but you don't need a heavy duty rope clutch. Glad to hear that you're getting new sails. I believe the Dutchman only make sense on a new mainsail vs retrofitting a stock sail.... Dutchman installed would cost more than a stock Mac sail. Good luck & enjoy.

Leon

Sloop John B · Post by **Sloop John B** » Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:17 pm

Lazy jacks are too big a rigging problem if you trailer. I use the sail caddy. I drop the main with halyard led aft, then step into cabin with feet on aft dinnete and/or galley, reach up and wrap main with fast clinch bunngie chords. Blustry day will cause sail to billow out of sail caddy otherwise.

johnnyonspot · Post by **johnnyonspot** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:08 pm

Last season I would just pull the main down and bunch it up on the boom, securing it with ball bungees. But last weekend, first time out, I used the method previously described where a couple feet of the main is held out by the the leech, and then the rest of the sail is piled into this section as it comes down, then secured to the boom with the ball bungees. Worked well the first time and plan to use it from now on. LJs would be nice, but too much work for me in light of how easy it is to do it the other way.

goddardw · Post by **goddardw** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:17 pm

Best to Heave-To then you are wind shaded by the Jib. Now starting from the Leach, boom end, pull the sail edge tightly and you will see the natural flake width. I use ball bungies on the first few flakes then sail tie straps when nearing the mast. Works for me!

johnnyonspot · Post by **johnnyonspot** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:23 pm

I tell you, those ball bungees are great! Not only are they great for securing the main to the boom, but when you are done sailing and want to secure the halyards, shrouds, stays, etc. to the mast for traveling, ball bungees are the thing once again. And they sell for about four bucks for a dozen at walmart.

On edit: changed "boom" to "mast" as when I am traveling with boat... on the highways and biways, the boom is in the cabin.

Frank C · Post by **Frank C** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:57 pm

There's also a new style of ball-bungee now in Walmart, with a very clever design.
They permit flexible and secure adjustment of their length, due to the way the ball has been drilled.

Moe · Post by **Moe** » Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:00 pm

davidbagnall wrote:I tried the flaking thing and found it also a real pain. So I gather up the sail loosely and roll it up and then simply tie it to the boom.

That's what I do as well.

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Folding (flaking) the mainsail

Dislike Lazy Jacks - Too Many Loose Lines