MacGregorSailors.com

I love my ETEC 60, yes it will run without oil or water, I do my best to supply it with both! If I were to repower it would be an ETEC 90 for those very flat days running WOT to Catalina. The technology built into the ETEC comes from BPE who also produces jet engines, other outboard companies also make weed whackers. They have access to serious scientists, labs and exotic compounds. The cylinder sleeves are ceramic not iron, most rules do not apply. The US military uses ETECs as do many other government agencies. Even Lake Tahoe Search and Rescue repowered with ETEC for the reliability and because they are the cleanest burning motors out there. Funny that my Honda dealer tried to sell me on his motor because "You can't take an Evinrude to Lake Tahoe", that was the all I could take and ran to my ETEC dealer. Another advantage is the three year maintenance schedule, for much less than the others expect every year. A 2-stroke motor has 3 moving parts, a 4-stroke motor has about 105, which would expect problems from?

I also have an ETEC 60, was talked out of the 90 now after a year and a half I wish I had the bigger motor . It was fine at first but now the boat is loaded with all the extra cr@p it is just not strong enough.

2009+ 90 hp Suzuki 4 stroke. 341 lbs, super quite, super fuel efficient. The 2008- motors are heavier because they shared the same block as the 140 Hp motors.

The ETec 90 weighs 320 lbs, a 21 lb savings over a four stroke.

ETec currently has a free 5 year warranty promotion while Suzuki has a free 6 year warranty promotion.

Just because the motor is a 4 stroke hardly means that it is unreliable. Notice how many two stroke motors are on small aircraft? We have 238,000 miles on our 302 powered Ford van without failure.

It's hard to believe that the Etec is as quite or as fuel efficient on any given days’ operation.

I rode on Billy's 140 Hp powered Suzuki 26X. It felt like the boat was made for that much motor. Very tempting.

Victor

What about the 115 E?

I would go as big as I could, and still be able to get past it getting on and off.

I would even go for the 140 two stroke.

G

Around here in the Northwest it always seems you have to keep to a schedule due to the tides and currents. You have to hit a particular current pass at slack, beat a weather system in, get past the point before the current turns, or worst case be able to still make good time against a 4-5 knot current. You will always feel let down if you don't have a bigger motor that allows you the flexibility to go where you want when you want. I wouldn't even look at anything smaller than a 70.

You might want to get through this someday, Skookumchuck Narrows just inside Jervis inlet by Egmont running at 14+ knots of flood current when we visited in 2004. It is the fastest current pass on the west coast. The tides come in strong here in the Northwest.



All the years I had my 50 I felt the boat was just plain underpowered. It was sufficient, but not what the boat really needed. Now that I have my 90hp Tohatsu TLDI the boat finally performs like it was made to (and like all the marketing claimed it would). Personally I like two strokes for their lower maintenance needs and costs, plus they are always lighter, but you certainly can't beat a four stroke for quiet efficient cruising.

BWY has installied Suzuki 70's on hundreds of M's up here over the past years, and it seems to be very close to the perfect motor for the boat. It used to be that the Suzuki 60 and 70 where the same power head and the 90, 115, and 140 where the same heavier power head. Starting this year they have gone to newly designed power heads, and the 70, 80, and 90 are now all the same 1500cc engine. I think this will make the 2009 Suzuki 70 even a better motor for the M. It's now going to share the same parts as the bigger motors. Usually the only difference is in computer tuning with in a family. This is the case with my Tohatsu. I actually have the parts to make it a 70 or a 90. You change two things, the computer, and the air intake which is smaller on the 70.

Whatever you pick make sure it can swing a 14" prop, they move the boat at low speeds much better than the 12" ones like my old 50hp had.

Thanks for all the great replies and tips!

Duane, as a matter of fact, I'm leaning heavily towards that Susuki 70 from BWY.

Excellent post by Mr. Mellon.

I too own an Etec. It is only a 50HP, but it is suitable for my needs. Two strokers Rule

The low-end torque will pull you out of the quagmire of currents found in Sebastian Inlet. If you are not familiar with that area, let me say it is premier H-E double hockey sticks ate-up with meanness

Big T

Big T,

Where do you sail in Central Florida? The Jax Mac Get-Together over Labor Day weekend had 5 Macs entering the Sebastian Inlet (after sailing down the Atlantic from the St. John's) at just about low tide and with a NE wind at 15 knots. So the wind and swells were meeting the outgoing tide making it very rough and due to almost low tide there were some times I saw very small numbers on my depth sounder.

I rolled in the Genoa before starting in and about half-way in chicken'd out and did a quick 180 into the wind and dropped my main and motored (with my Merc 40 HP 2-Stroke w/ powerthruster...got to stay on topic don't I... ) the rest of the way. But there were a few crazies (no names mentioned) that were heading in wing-on-wing. Next time I will pay a little more attention to tides and swells and try to time it for high/slack tide.

Cheers,
Jim

Hmmm, I'm a little surprised at all the responders that want *more* power. I'm flip-flopping back and forth... I went and looked at a Susuki 70, and thought, whoa that is BIG, even though it's smaller then ever. So now I'm thinking I don't need a lot of power, after all, that's why I sold my bowrider. I want sails not fumes.

What would be the smallest motor you could put on a ? Would a 9.9 HP be a complete waste of time, or fine for just puddering around, and getting me home when the wind dies? (Yes I'll probably get more than a 9.9, was thinking a 40 would be fine for me.)

I wouldn't want to be out in the Northwest waters with just a 9.9hp motor. Based on my 15 years of cruising these waters, originally on a boat that had a Sears Craftsman 2hp and later a 6hp, I just think it would not be a safe choice. My 90hp is just as quiet as your 9.9hp when turned off and sailing.

I also think going with a 40 is silly, they are really the same motors as the 50hp in almost every brand so why not get the 50 that is the standard recommended motor for the boat.

If I was to go small I would pick a 25hp four stroke. This will give you just enough power to be safe in any conditions, it will get you home against a contrary current. I know many people who have boats that can only make 6-7 knots under power (which is what a 9.9 would give you at WOT) who have been forced to abort passages because they could only make a net 1-2 knots against a current. A 25hp motor will even provide enough power to empty the ballast tank as you will be able to go just fast enough to lift the bow. Being able to do this is also a safety issue as there are times you need to get light and go, plus it always nice to load the boat without ballast onto the trailer and just be able to pull directly out without spending 10 minutes hogging the ramp. A 25hp still gives you some of the powerboat advantages that differentiate a Mac from just a normal trailerable sailboat.

Yet with a 25hp four stroke running at 3,000 rpm moving the boat at 6-7 knots, it will be so quiet you will hardly know it's there. I would speculate that it will be quieter than the WOT of a 9.9hp that would be required to get that speed. You also should get some really great fuel economy with a 25hp four stroke motor.

One last comment on the intermediate HP range.

Depending on the manufacturer, you will find an upper limit of HP that you can install and get the MFG warranty without having a certified installer (which adds 1k or so)

For Nissan, for instance, this cutoff is 20 HP, while you can buy up to a 30 HP in Mercury line.

c130king wrote:Big T,

Where do you sail in Central Florida? The Jax Mac Get-Together over Labor Day weekend had 5 Macs entering the Sebastian Inlet (after sailing down the Atlantic from the St. John's) at just about low tide and with a NE wind at 15 knots. So the wind and swells were meeting the outgoing tide making it very rough and due to almost low tide there were some times I saw very small numbers on my depth sounder.

I rolled in the Genoa before starting in and about half-way in chicken'd out and did a quick 180 into the wind and dropped my main and motored (with my Merc 40 HP 2-Stroke w/ powerthruster...got to stay on topic don't I... ) the rest of the way. But there were a few crazies (no names mentioned) that were heading in wing-on-wing. Next time I will pay a little more attention to tides and swells and try to time it for high/slack tide.

Cheers,
Jim

Hey Jim

Sunday Sept 13th, I was hauling thru the inlet on my way north to EuGallie Causeway ramp. A park named Ballard. Stormed like 'ell going in. My wife and I had just returned from Ft Pierce earlier and had been sailing the 'outside' for 32 miles the day before. Like I said, made my way in thru Sebastian Inlet that Sunday under power of the iron Jenny (of course). Sebastian Inlet is pure maddness. I can't imagine having the ballz to sail that inlet under sail

Anyway, it was early afternoon and the tide had begun coming in and I rode in @ 9kts while the Etec was running only 1K rpm Best run of the inlet I ever had Felt I was surfing. Waves in the channel at 4 plus feet 8 seconds apart. Not bad.

Incidently, just north of the Jetty, the waves were reported to be 8 feet plus in 'Monster Hole'. The surfers were having a day of it ... indeed!!!

Big T

Just because the motor is a 4 stroke hardly means that it is unreliable. Notice how many two stroke motors are on small aircraft?

Yep thousands just about every ultra light and many smaller airplanes. Rotax is one I can think of off the top of my head and Jabaru also make a two stroke aircraft engine from memory. Then there are these puppies I just googled up http://www.deltahawkengines.com/ 2 stroke turbo diesels, man I wish they made outboards like that. Aslo who wants to pay $50,000.00 for an outboard engine so it is to the same standard as an aircraft engine with a maintenance schedule measured in hours not months. Lets compare apples here not oranges .

I don't think a properly maintained 4 is any less reliable than a 2. But a 4 requires more maintenance and when they break they generally don't work at all. A 2 requires far less maintenance and when they break they normally still work although at a vastly reduced power output. For example the ETECs have a limp home mode that turns them into a giant "lawn trimmer motor" they can run without oil, the computer, or all the other stuff so as long as they have fuel and a spark they will limp home at 1500rpm. Also as they have a magneto you can create the spark by hand starting them with a rope.

Try and start a modern fuel injected 4 with a rope and a 100% flat battery, most won't cause the alternator won't turn over fast enough to power the electronic fuel injection. Never mind a broken oil pump, head gasket etc.

In a lifetime of use this may never happen but with my luck it will and it will be when there is no wind and I am stuck in a 4 knot current heading for rocks with a no holding bottom, right then is when I will say thank god I have an ETEC to limp home on, as I through the dingy over the side and tow the Macgregor home with my 5.5hp two stroke kicker because I don't have time to muck around with ½ a dozen hex key bolts and cowling cover and other stuff to find a start rope to get the ETEC working

There is no right or wrong any modern motor is generally reliable if maintained poperly. Unless you get a lemon and that can be a 2 or a 4.

My 90hp is just as quiet as your 9.9hp when turned off and sailing.

Ha ha... thanks Duane! Excellent post. And yes, considering how fast the weather and currents can change around here, a 50 (or 70) for the Northwest waters would be a smart thing to have.

If you are thinking small motor, consider one at least big enough (?) to connect to the steeing bar along with a remote throttle at the helm.
These two options might save your hide if conditions are less than ideal.

Finn, a member here, could chime in with a story about his tiller steered, tiller throttled 8hp on his M while at Catalina last weekend.