Anchor Caution

[puggsy]

Hi Oskar...Sorry to hear of your probs...I know the anchorage fairly well and the prevailing wind conditions, having done a couple of short seasons on a mates snapper boat out of Carnarvon...Maybe you were lucky it was not a south easter...then you would have had to chase your all the way to Dirk Hartog Island...and hope it did not go out to the big sea past the south tip of Bernier.
About the anchor setup in Jm's photo...a very good idea especially for an awkward shape anchor..SEAHORSE, sadly now enjoyed by her new owner, HAD the same mod and it was very successful...

However, the new owner of SEAHORSE decided that my mod was a problem to him and he did away with it, even allowing me to keep the small Danforth. Which was very generous.
I hope not, but he may regret that decision...In any emergency, who wants to go digging in an anchor well?

Cheers...puggsy

[Kelly Hanson East]

Very happy with my Bullwaga - mounted on a roller on the bow on my

Project is in the Mac Mods section.

It was my primary when Hurricane Bill's 45 kts swept over us on Cuttyhunk in August, the wind backed 180 degrees but we never broke off the Bull - it had been in mud for a week, so it was dug in well

Second the comment on having lots of chain on the rode. I have 25 feet of 1/4 inch.

[delevi]

I read somewhere that anchor size/weight is not very important. The shape of the flukes is, as well as proper scope. I would say chain, chain, and more chain. Never dragged my 13 lb danforth. 50' chain+300'rope rode. Plenty of scope, at least 5:1, preferably 7:1. An anchor with lots of chain rode and ample scope sholdn't drag, even if it's not set, unless conditions are severe. If it is properly set, it shouldn't drag even in the most severe conditions. Spent many nights on the hook on charter boats using a plow-style anchor with all chain rode. Held up through 40+knot winds and no drag. My only experiences, however, have been in mud or sand, never in weeds or rock to the best of my knowledge. Hope this is of some help.

Leon.

[James V]

Knowing what your anchor will do per bottom type is most important. To light of anchor will not dig into hard pack very well. I could not get my 13 pound fluk to set fast in the Fl bottoms.

[Kelly Hanson East]

Weeds are the dangerous one imho.

I once dug in in 30 kts of wind at Woods Hole, set the anchor (I thought) and waited about 30 minutes to make sure it was good. I was getting ready to get on the tender to go ashore, leaving the kids alone on board, when the boat suddenly blew off the anchor and headed for the mooring field in the Great Harbor.

We scrambled and ended up getting wrapped around a boat on a mooring with us on one side and the tender on the other on a line....pretty ugly. All this while still dragging an anchor...I was worried the anchor would foul a mooring chain and really muck things up.

I put out two fenders and used the boat as a 'base' to get the anchor up and get the tender back behind us, then easily pulled away. I really dug the anchor in well next time and it held fine.

Grass can make a big ball which makes you think you are anchored, but eventually the grass lets go and off you go on the sleigh ride.

I will say when I have backed down on the Bull at 3000 rpm for at least 10 seconds, it has NEVER broken free, so thats my acid test now.

[Oskar 26M]

Puggsy:
Sorry to hear that you have sold Seahorse. I hope you told the new owners about this forum and that you still manage to get out on the water every once in a while.
KHE: I agree about weed. Weed is common where I sail and my first problem with the Guardian was due entirely to weed... a huge ball of it formed around the anchor and stopped the flukes from getting anywhere near the bottom. A plough like the Delta or Manson seem to work better in weed but I've heard that the old Admiralty design has the be reputation

[Kelly Hanson East]

One more thing - once you have a ball of weeds around your anchor, it is important that you clean them off before you try to reset - this is pretty difficult to do by yourself, of course (since the boat blows away while you are trying to unfoul the anchor.

On C'hunk this year, my 11 year old helmed while I set the anchor - life is good!!!

[Chinook]

I've never had this happen on salt water, but on a freshwater reservoir I had a real problem with dragging. We were well set with our Bruce in a bottom which showed a light weed cover. 40 knots of sustained wind kicked up. The anchor held well for several hours, but eventually started to slowly drag. It turned out that we were dragging despite the anchor still being "well set". What happened is that the force of wind resulted in the anchor ripping up a huge mat of weed roots from the bottom. Kind of line pulling up a big mat of sod. With the anchor flukes buried in the mat, we just dragged when the wind hit its higher speeds. This experience has made me suspicious of anchoring on reservoirs ever since. They just don't have the depth of mud, silt or sand that most sea bottoms and natural lakes have.

[Rick Westlake]

The secret to any anchor holding power is the Chain. Use a min. of 15 ft. of 1/4 to 5/16 chain and have a swivel connection.

You can get along with less, in certain circumstances, IMHO&E ... a kedge, a lunch-hook, maybe a second or third anchor. BUT - you will have to drop it carefully, with the chain led in the right direction, and set it more carefully. I've got 30 feet of 5/16" proof-coil chain on my primary Raya Tempest (and 150 feet of 1/2" Yale Brait spliced to that), but Fortress suggested 6 feet of 3/8" beneath the nylon rode for my FX-11; and that has worked decently well for me, in the uses I specified above. (But I don't depend on it as my only hook, in a pinch.)

A Plow or Claw works good in hard and grassy bottoms, Danforth type excelent in mud or sand.

That's one virtue that I see in having at least one of each - you can use the anchor that best serves the anchoring ground.

The Fortress dosn't fit in anchor locker as the shaft is to long.it also wont fit on the anchor holder on bow pulpit .

My FX-11 is in a "tube mount" on the transom of Bossa Nova. That short chain fits in there as well, and I've shackled it to the top of the tube ... the line rode is in a bag in one of the "fuel-tank pockets", and I connect it up if I see that I might want a "stern hook" to hand....

If you're keeping it as a "spare" you might want their anchor bag; it holds the Fortress very conveniently, and it comes with two right-size wrenches to fasten the fluke-shackles (plus a spare fluke-shackle and bolt, just in case).

The rest of your post shows you have the one part of an anchoring system that we can't buy: Experience. We less-experienced sailors would do well to learn from you, even if we don't follow you exactly ...

[Wind Chime]

I read somewhere that anchor size/weight is not very important. The shape of the flukes is, as well as proper scope. I would say chain, chain, and more chain. Never dragged my 13 lb danforth. 50' chain+300'rope rode. Plenty of scope, at least 5:1, preferably 7:1. An anchor with lots of chain rode and ample scope sholdn't drag, even if it's not set, unless conditions are severe. If it is properly set, it shouldn't drag even in the most severe conditions. Spent many nights on the hook on charter boats using a plow-style anchor with all chain rode. Held up through 40+knot winds and no drag. My only experiences, however, have been in mud or sand, never in weeds or rock to the best of my knowledge. Hope this is of some help.

Leon.

I agree wih leon's more chain and lots of scope ratios.
3:1 = lunch
5:1 = light overnight
7:1 = strong wind overnight

The problem I find (in the Pacific Northwest anyway) is that you are lucky to get a 3:1 scope, and some times even less like 2.5:1.

Most achorages are very small, or very full, and a lot of them have mooring balls so your swing is limited.

I think an overspec deep set anchor with chain, is still the best solution for these cases.

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Cute as the anchor lockers on our boats are, I think they should only be used for the anchor rodes.

Ever since I switched from two danforth style anchors with the second anchor and both rodes stacked in the locker, to two different style anchors on the bow with a divided locker for the rodes I have had no anchoring issues at all for many years.

I feel an anchor has to be ready to go at a moments notice on the bow. If you have to assemble anything you will live to regret it. Unless your boating area is so limited in scope that you will never encounter a variety of bottoms, you need a good soft bottom anchor (usually a danforth style) and a good hard / foul bottom anchor. We carry a guardian G16 (the cheaper lightweight aluminum Danforth version made by fortress) and 16.5lb Claw (the Bruce style anchor made by Lewmar). This covers all the bottom types and doesn't break the bank. While more expensive than when we bought ours, the G16 still only costs $137 and the Claw costs $54 (West Marine prices, probably cheaper elsewhere). I feel the Fortress series 16 anchors are a better choice than the 11 series, neither the Fortress or it's cousin Guardian 16 series will fit in the locker but they are easily carried on a bracket attached to the bow pulpit on any of the Mac boats.

Both of ours are on the bow all the time (in the water or trailering). They are completely secure yet ready to deploy.


The rodes are in the divided locker so either can be used without tangling. Often we use both to still get good scope yet limit our swing in tight anchorages.


With any anchor, it is only as good as the chain you pair it with. The chains primary job is to keep the pull on the anchor horizontal to the bottom. As the boat surges in wind you are lifting part of the chain. If this reaches the point where the entire chain is lifted off the bottom and the pull on the anchor becomes vertical most likely you will break it out and begin to drag no matter how well you initially set it. The more scope you have out, the more you reduce the chance of this happening. Also in tidal areas don't forget to factor in the tide height at the time you anchor compared to the highest tide you will encounter during your stay. Around here this can easily add 12'-14' of extra water depth and turn your low scope situation into a no scope situation.

In many ways you are better off to buy a cheaper anchor and put your money in a longer, heavier chain. Rather than using the 3/16" (.39 lb/ft) chain that is typically paired with the 3/8" rode on boats our size, go up to a 1/4" (.63 lb/ft) or 5/16" (1.0 lb/ft) chain. This extra weight in the chain will make a small anchor perform like a much larger one. A foot of chain for each foot of boat length is a good guide. The kits that only have a 3' - 6' chain are not even worth bothering with.

[waternwaves]

dd wrote

.....we bought ours, the G16 still only costs $137 and the Claw costs $54 .......

makes me think I got a deal for my WestMarine bruce style........ 66 lbs, 89.00 boat show price shipped to the store last winter during the economy crisis.... oh wait.....that is still going on............... (Didn't have anything on the mac big enough to move over to the hunter, but now the hunter has 2 spare 33 pounders and a 22 lb lunch hook, I wonder if the bow roller would hold a 33.......lol)

A lot to be said for that bruce cutting through the weeds. Hasnt failed me yet. Notice I call them weeds.......not eelgrass.

[bubba]

I have been looking at a claw anchor probably a 33 lb that is the max that our extended anchor roller is designed for. There are harbors in Pudget sound that a heavy anchor with lots of heavy chain is needed to hold good in crouded harbors. Is there anyone who uses a 33 lb claw ??

[Duane Dunn, Allegro]

Having spent 15 years cruising up here in Puget Sound I would say a 33lb anchor on our boats is too big. I would go smaller, the 16.5 lb we have or the next size up the 22lb ($75).

Since we don't have windlasses, you have to pay attention to the total weight of your anchor and chain. You can only hoist so much while out there bobbing around on the bow.

I'd go with a smaller anchor and a longer heavy chain. Instead of the 33lb anchor, I'd rather have a 22 lb and an extra 10' of 5/16" (1 lb/ft) chain. Take however much chain you were going to buy and add the 10' to it. Put 25' to 35' of chain on the anchor. Having more heavy chain stretched out on the bottom will add far more performance to the system than simply adding 10lbs of weight to the anchor alone. The 22lb Claw is more than enough and the extra weight is better put into keeping the chain horizontal with the bottom so the anchor stays firmly in the bottom. The weight of the anchor alone is not what keeps your boat secure, The chain is the key piece that lets even a light 6lb aluminum Danforth anchor hold our boats securely. The shape of the anchor lets it bite the bottom when dragged horizontally and the weight of the chain keeps it from being lifted vertically and pulling out from the bottom.

[bubba]

Thanks Duane We have a danforth 14 and I probably will add 20 or so feet of heavyer chan to it . What chan length do you use ?