Wheel falls off at +80kph Exciting

[Robert]

I had that problem. It was time for brake inspection, my lug nuts were rusty, and I used penetrating oil to soften the rust. Later, and before getting the lugs off for maintenance, we went on a trip to the coast. Weather was bad for sailing in November, so we visited the Tundra Swans at a shallow lake. The road to this lake is dirt. I towed maybe 10 miles on dirt with washboard ruts at 20 mph. After that we headed for home. At a fuel stop, I did a walk around to look at the trailer wheels. The passenger side white painted wheel was black. The other side was still white. Upon closer inspedction, the black was metal dust from the lug holes in the wheel getting bigger. I tightenned up the lug nuts which were very loose on both sides and continued home normally. Then I replaced the wheels with sturdy as available aluminum and switched to disc brakes which came with new lug bolts. Had I not done that walk around I would have had the wheel come off moments later at 70 mph.

[Kevin]

Gotta love this board!!!!

You folks have saved my cookies for sure.

I have been blissfully running the Dwen up and down the west coast for the last 8 months and never done more than a visual check of the trailer.

Because of this thread I picked up one of those cross lug wrenches and checked the nuts. All but one was loose. I backed each of them off a turn and re-tightened in a cross pattern.

Lug wrench got added to the back of the truck with the grease gun for the bearing buddies and I'm gonna give them that quick check at every rest stop.

Gosh I love this!

[Captain Steve]

Ken,

get a digital tire pressure gauge too. keep the pressure at 52 lbs with radials, for smooth track and minimum weaving.

[Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL]

Wheel Falls off at +80kph Exciting is just one more example of the poor quality of the MacGregor trailer, compared to other boats.
You never hear of a wheel coming off the trailer of a Tartan, or a Hanse, or a Hinckley, or a Hylas, or a Jeanneau, or any of the America's Cup boats!

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Gee Bill, I didn't realize those types of boats even came with trailers!

[Tom Spohn]

Bill,
Why would anybody trailer a Mac at 80 mph???? Especially knowing that the trailer is marginal.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

I believe 80kph=50mph

[Harry van der Meer]

I opt for using a bit of Loctite on the standard lug nuts, myself.

I was told by my dealer to use anti seize on the lugs. This will also prevent corrosion of the studs. Is anti seize the wrong thing to use?

[kmclemore]

I opt for using a bit of Loctite on the standard lug nuts, myself.

I was told by my dealer to use anti seize on the lugs. This will also prevent corrosion of the studs. Is anti seize the wrong thing to use?

Well, here's my thoughts on that, Harry....

On the one hand, putting on the anti-sieze would seem a good idea as it will prevent rusting, as you say, and also allow even, smooth torquing and easier removal at a later time.

On the other hand, however, the lubricating nature of anti-sieze will vastly distort your actual torque reading when tighening the nuts, allowing you to apply much more tension-load to the studs at a given rotational torque reading... and as a result you'll likely stretch, strip or snap a stud in the process of bringing them up to spec.

Most manuals recommend torquing nuts or bolts in either a 'dry' condition (clean, rust-free and with no lubricant whatsoever), or with a thin coating of light machine oil (usually SAE 5w). I usually opt for the 'dry' method unless advised otherwise by the assembly notes... and further, if you're using Loctite it's the only option. Anyway, you can always smear a bit of bearing grease or spray some marine-storage lube on the outside of the lugs once you've got them alll done-up if you want to slow down the 'rust faries'.

One other possibility of the anti-sieze is that it may indeed do just what it says - fail to sieze - and your nuts will quite happily fall off at speed! (And you have no idea how painful that can be! )

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Mine didn't bust off when I torqued them to 90 lbs with the anti-seize stuff on. I have read of a lot of people on this site who use it and also heard from a trucker who swears by the stuff.

[Moe]

Kevin is exactly correct, and explained it pretty clearly. The reason for a certain amount of rotational torque is to create a certain amount of longitudinal tension in a particular fastener. Using lubricant, when it isn't called for, results in more tension than the fastener is designed for.... and vice versa. For example, not using lubricant on head bolts that call for it will usually result in a blown head gasket.

Can you get away with it? Sometimes. Is it a good idea? No.

--
Moe

[kmclemore]

Mine didn't bust off when I torqued them to 90 lbs with the anti-seize stuff on. I have read of a lot of people on this site who use it and also heard from a trucker who swears by the stuff.

Well, as I say, that's my just my thoughts as a mechanical engineer with more than a few busted bolts with my name on them. And as Charlie Brown once said, "If it's true that we learn from our mistakes, I guess that makes me the smartest guy on earth!"

However, don't take my word for it.. you can give a read here, where Mondello Racing Products suggest that

"If you are using moly or an anti-friction lube instead of oil, use about 20% less torque."

You can also find a recommendation from Bendix here that says:

"At Bendix, we recommend against using lubricants on lug nut threads, as do many vehicle manufacturers.... If you insist on lubricating lug threads, please be sparing and make sure to compensate for the increased torque likely to result. For example, one lubricant manufacturer recommends torquing nuts to only 85 percent of the factory specification when using their nickel-based anti-seize compound on threads."

[kmclemore]

One other thought....

Steel studs - and bolts for that matter - are kind of like springs, and they literally streeeeeetch as you tighten them down.

Now, if you apply the proper amount of torque - not too much, not too little - then you can use that "stretch" as a way of holding the bits tight and preventing untimely disasembly, since it will apply constant pressure to the frictional surfaces on the flanges of the inside of nut or bolt head and stop any potential rotation.

Having said that, have you ever yanked on a spring really hard and seen it suddenly lose all it's elasticity? Right, we all have. Well, overtighten a bolt or stud and that's just what you've got. And just like that spring, once it's pulled over it's limits, no amount of continued pulling, no matter how hard (tight) you go, will get that 'spring' tension back again... it just keeps getting longer and longer until it finally just snaps.

So.... if you overtorque a bolt or stud, even one time, you have just left yourself wide open for failure because you've removed the 'spring' from the steel, and you'll never get it back again with that fastener! That baby's 'boing' is toast, gone just as surely as time itself, never to return again. No spring, no anti-rotational tension... no anti-rotational tension and the nuts unwind nicely... and, as a great Haiku poet once said,

Wheel falls off
at +80kph.
Exciting

Getting back to lubrication, the manufacturer is usually the best guide... if they say use lube whilst torquing, use 5w machine oil or whatever they recommend. If they say nothing, like most, then they mean 'clean and dry' and you need to either do as the nice man who wrote that book says, or you can undertake some very fancy calculations involving the coefficient of friction to determine the proper adjusted torque loading figure. Not being terribly good at math, I usually spare myself the aggro and just torque dry. However, if you simply can't resist lubing with a slippery lube like anti-sieze, and then you torque to the manufacturer's original specs, my money says you just sprung your stud's fragile virginity, and all the vgra-xd on God's pretty Earth ain't gettin' it back.


Now, the correct fix for those 'sprung' studs is to press them all out - a pretty easy job, with a good puller or press, some patience, several bottles of a suitable brewed beverage, a large box of your son's 'Sesame Street' glow-in-the-dark Band-Aids, and a broad vocabulary of the vulgar tongue - and then re-install a known-new set of studs and nuts, clean and dry like momma made'em. (If you're like me, you might want to use a touch of Loctite, but that's optional, of course.)

Cross-tighten the assembly to the proper torque using a known accurate torque wrench, and then label the fender with the proper torque number... and you might also add the proper tyre pressure figure as well. Briefly loosen and re-torque each one after 50 miles (do not do this if you used Loctite - just check them instead), and then check them every 100-200 miles thereafter.

[kmclemore]

Well, well... will wonders never cease... I was doing a little after-posting 'google' as my interest was piqued and I couldn't sleep anyway (and also I'm basically a glutton for useless engineering trivia), and I came across this. It seems to be the definitive site for all-you-want-to-know-about-nuts-and-bolts, and has a well written discussion on why they come adrift... it's a good read if you go for that sort of thing.

[Crocus26X]

I too know what a loose wheel sounds like but it can only be heard if a window is open and you are making a tight turn. After driving for 2 hours I was making a pit stop and heard a strange clunking sound from "way back" behind me. Lucky for me there were two nuts still on the studs of one wheel but they were ready to fall off too. I had been checking and adjusting the brakes before the trip and I must have forgotten to tighten that wheel. The rim was ruined as the bolt holes were enlarged by the hammering. I was able to mount the spare but tightening the nuts was a real grunt as the stud threads were badly damaged.
Here's another reason for having tandem axles: I was able to steal one nut from the other three wheels to hold the spare on for the trip home. Another twist to this story is that I discovered that the spare wheel rim had similar but much less serious damage of the bolt holes. A previous owner must have had a similar experience.
My trailer now has two new rims, some new studs and a smarter owner.