Anchoring: too much scope?

[Rick Westlake]

Ray, that's a good hefty anchor buoy. How do you use it - do you tie it off to a trip-line on the crown of the anchor, or do you have a way of sliding it down the rode while weighing anchor to "coax" the hook out of the mud?

I have used a buoyed trip-line, and I'm going to use it more consistently this summer. I have a small round yellow inflatable float for it, but here in crab-pot country an empty Clorox bottle might be more appropriate - and more likely to be avoided!

[Don T]

Hello,
I marked my rode with red and black stripes made with a permanent sharpie. I use red for 10 feet and black for 50. So 4 red stripes is 40' - 2 black and 3 red is 130' etc.

[Sumner]

Ray, that's a good hefty anchor buoy. How do you use it - do you tie it off to a trip-line on the crown of the anchor, or do you have a way of sliding it down the rode while weighing anchor to "coax" the hook out of the mud?.....!

There are youtube videos showing how to use it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8T8GdSvvL84

....pretty neat and we were stuck bad in mud once and would of liked to of tried it out.

We bought an anchor sail kit from Sailrite and in the instructions for use they recommend tying it off over to the side of the boat. Then it creates a situation kind of like when you "heave to" and is more effective at keeping you from swinging vs. having it rigged down the center-line of the boat. We hope to be trying it out this year, so will find out if the technique works or not.

One other tip is if you have a hand held or even using your fixed GPS. Mark your anchor location as it goes overboard, up forward if possible. That will cut the possible drag location in half and make the anchor alarm more effective. If you set it when you back down then if the wind/currents are right you could move twice the distance to the anchor (swing around the anchor 180 deg.) and still not of drug. Marking the location where the anchor goes over will cut that in half.

When we started last year we would be going along at 2-3 knots and I'd just throw the anchor over and the rode would stream out and I'd set it and we would come to a stop . I later found out that wasn't the way to set the anchor and now do it similar to Rick's method, but not as thorough . I'll work on that as he has the right technique.

c ya,

Sum

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[bubba]

We regularly anchor in 30 to 50 feet of water and use 50 ft of 3/8 " chain and then 100' of rode and I use a 22 pound folding grapple anchor unfolded on another line and hook it to the anchor rode and let it slide down to the chain to add extra weight to keep the anchor and chain held down so our anchor really holds. I like having 2 lines when pulling up anchor I only have 22 lbs on one line and the 14 lb anchor and chain on the other so it is not too heavy all together. This system really works good even in shallow anchorages if I hook the second anchor 20 ft from the anchor it acts like lots of chain only better because the boat has to lift the 22 lb anchor first if the breeze picks up. On ocasion when our boat turns at night the lines get twisted but is easy to untwist if needed. I guess you could use a heavy round plastic covered lead ball instead of the folding anchor but it gives us a second anchor if needed.

[Russ]

I've done it both ways on Cuttyhunk for a week, but haven't dragged either way. Of course, thats my Bulwagga in mud, which is really good combo.

I've heard many good things about the Bulwagga.
So I've searched and searched and can't find where to buy one. Are they out of business?

[Kelly Hanson East]

Noteco in Utica NY, Peter Mele was the designer and manufacturer.

I remember someone emailed me that they closed up shop April 2009, but I never confirmed that.

[c130king]

For you guys with anchoring experience...especially in areas with other boats on the hook.

1) What rule of thumb do you use to determine how far from another boat you can safely anchor?

2) Boat size has nothing to do with scope right? Assuming a standard 4:1 to 7:1 ratio range of rode to depth a 50' boat would have the same amount of rode as our Mac's...thus you don't necessarily need to give them anymore room than a smaller boat. Does that sound right?

3) I guess that unless you motor over and ask you don't know how much rode a boat has deployed. You anchor 150' away in 8' of water thinking you will be fine but if your neighbor has 200' of rode out there could be issues???

Thanks,
Jim

[bubba]

In the Pacific north west where the tides are 13 to over 20 ft in Alaskia the rule is about 300 ft or so if your in 15 ft of (fairley shallow) water at average low tide, so you really need to know the tides. At high tide no one swings much but at low tide watch out. The cool thing about a Mac is we get to use shallower anchorage than the deep keel and fixed prop boats so there is usually good anchorage. One time we were anchored in a sandy spot by a pizza restrurant on Lummi Island in the SanJuan Islands and we had to use paddles to move the next morning at low low tide in about 2 ft of water and big leaf water plants, but for only about 20 ft, the pizza was worth it. We do carry my wife's 2- 7 ft paddles and can set in our stearn rail seats and paddle about 1 mph gps, from my wifes early sailing days.

[Sumner]

In the Pacific north west where the tides are 13 to over 20 ft in Alaskia the rule is about 300 ft or so if your in 15 ft of (fairley shallow) water at average low tide, so you really need to know the tides. At high tide no one swings much but at low tide watch out. The cool thing about a Mac is we get to use shallower anchorage than the deep keel and fixed prop boats so there is usually good anchorage. One time we were anchored in a sandy spot by a pizza restrurant on Lummi Island in the SanJuan Islands and we had to use paddles to move the next morning at low low tide in about 2 ft of water and big leaf water plants, but for only about 20 ft, the pizza was worth it. We do carry my wife's 2- 7 ft paddles and can set in our stearn rail seats and paddle about 1 mph gps, from my wifes early sailing days.

Do you have any trip reports posted anywhere? I'd love to read about that area and your trips. I find it still a little intimidating with the tides/currents and such. We will get a little of that in Florida, but nothing really as intense,

Sum

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[NiceAft]

According to SAILING FUNDAMENTALS, the text we used in my Coast Guard Auxiliary boating course,

When a scope of 4:1 is reached, the crew snubs the rode around the deck cleat to set (dig in) the anchor. Once the anchor has been set, the crew continues to pay out the rode until a scope of 7:1 is reached

Ray

[DaveB]

Jim,
As Anchoring becomes more of a tight problem in crowded anchorages I have used all chain on my 35ft. Alberg to 30 ft. of chain and 3twist braided line on the MacX. I usually anchor in 4-10 ft. of water and let out all the chain and another 20 ft. line. All Chain you can use a 3-1 scope from top of deck, with 12 ft. of chain and rest line the scope is usually 7 -1 with winds up to 40 knots.
This all depends on holding ground and deck windage and displacement.
Going with 50 ft. of 1/4 proof coil chain and rest 3 strand in 15 ft. of water will allow you the 3-1 scope. (depth 15 ft. deck to water 4 ft. =19 ft.) .Thats a total of 57 ft. out with the chain compared to 124ft. line out with 6-12ft. chain.
Chain also acts as a anchor if enough let to sit on bottom if hard rock under sandy bottom.
Best to ask or look at level of scope others anchored close to you, some just like to take up the anchorage useing a 15-1 scope or more and swings a 200 ft. diamiter circle when wind or current shifts. In the Bahamas and elseware current is at hand most boats will put out a Bahiman moor (anchor aft and fore at the bow).
Your #2 just allow the boat length, they put out same length scope but heavier ground and rode equipment.
If in doubt, ask your nabor what he has out for rode and length. When in Doubt, put a couple fenders out.
Dave

For you guys with anchoring experience...especially in areas with other boats on the hook.

1) What rule of thumb do you use to determine how far from another boat you can safely anchor?

2) Boat size has nothing to do with scope right? Assuming a standard 4:1 to 7:1 ratio range of rode to depth a 50' boat would have the same amount of rode as our Mac's...thus you don't necessarily need to give them anymore room than a smaller boat. Does that sound right?

3) I guess that unless you motor over and ask you don't know how much rode a boat has deployed. You anchor 150' away in 8' of water thinking you will be fine but if your neighbor has 200' of rode out there could be issues???

Thanks,
Jim

[c130king]

I guess one of my future upgrades will have to be either a new anchor system or at least more chain. All I have now is the standard Danforth with 6' of chain and 150' or rode...comes all together from WM. I have two of them.

But I have never really anchored yet. Just some beach anchoring and one time anchoring in about 8' of water for a few hours to watch an airshow...anchored crosswind with one off the bow and one off the stern...but the winds were only about 10 mph so no problems.

Don't think I am quite ready to anchor in big open areas with moderate winds and/or close to other boats.

I have experienced Bastonjock's big 22lb anchor with a lot of chain...that thing held us in place in a big blow (winds 30+ knots)...but it won't fit in the anchor locker.

Cheers,
Jim

[Sumner]

..............I have experienced Bastonjock's big 22lb anchor with a lot of chain...that thing held us in place in a big blow (winds 30+ knots)...but it won't fit in the anchor locker...........Cheers, Jim

If I was anchoring out "at all" at night I wouldn't want anything smaller than a 22-25 lb. anchor with an X or M if it was a Bruce, Delta, Manson, plow, etc. with the exception of if it was a Fortress. Keep a Fortress or one of your present anchors in the anchor locker and get a bigger anchor with a better rode for night time use and store it somewhere.

I'm going to make an anchor locker, but these..............



http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner ... ing-4.html

....cheap soft or hard side cooler bags have been great for anchor rode bags. You can also put them over your shoulder to carry forward if you have them and the anchor stored some place. We also use.....



...the ones with the hard sides and it is easier to stuff the rode back into vs. the soft one as the sides don't fold in while you are stuffing the line back in. Using either of these, I've never have the line foul coming out of them and you just stuff the line back in while you bring the rode in. No coiling or anything .

Anchoring has its moments sometimes, but the rewards can be great,

Sum

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[DaveB]

Jim, the standard Danforth 16 lb. that fits in your anchor well is same we use 90% of the time with 30 ft. 1/4 proofcoil chain. This in most conditions to 30 knots of wind (sometimes in 50 knots depending on bottom) will keep you from dragging in mud and sand, if you have heavy grass and hard bottom it could drag but lot of areas are protected from grassy areas and Highly recommend not to anchor in these areas as they add life to growth in the food production .
Shorter the scope with chain will result in less disturblance in grass areas.
I have a Fortress 11 anchor as a storm anchor and only used it once and didn't really need it than.
Dave

I guess one of my future upgrades will have to be either a new anchor system or at least more chain. All I have now is the standard Danforth with 6' of chain and 150' or rode...comes all together from WM. I have two of them.

But I have never really anchored yet. Just some beach anchoring and one time anchoring in about 8' of water for a few hours to watch an airshow...anchored crosswind with one off the bow and one off the stern...but the winds were only about 10 mph so no problems.

Don't think I am quite ready to anchor in big open areas with moderate winds and/or close to other boats.

I have experienced Bastonjock's big 22lb anchor with a lot of chain...that thing held us in place in a big blow (winds 30+ knots)...but it won't fit in the anchor locker.

Cheers,
Jim

[Rick Westlake]

Another way of getting better holding is a "kellet," also called a "sentinel" or an "angel" - a substantial weight, shackled to run along the anchor rode and lowered on its own line to just graze the bottom. I figure 20 lbs of excess scuba weights, on a spare Wichard halyard shackle I have on hand, ought to do the job for a trial.

There is a commercial product, the "Kiwi Anchor Rider", that is supposedly optimized to do this job. Their website FAQ asserts that its "shock absorber" qualities will help to minimize the "anchor dance" observed in high-windage boats. (Like our Macs.) They also assert that it "almost doubles the holding power and reduces the working load of the anchor by up to 50%" (direct quote). The site also explains, most carefully, why their product is more convenient and chafe-proof than a homemade version like mine. (Hardly surprising, their self-interest is at stake!)

They don't list the price on their website, and I suppose that the cost of shipping a 30-pound item is part of the reason why, but they showed a review from a British magazine (Yachting Life, Nov 2002) that listed the price of a 20-lb Kiwi Anchor Rider as "£90 including VAT". That's supposed to be good for up to a 30-foot boat. The U.S. agents only sell a 30-lb model, which was listed in the Yachting Life article at £95.

I am not afraid to pay too much for superb ground tackle - see my post in July 2009 about "the ultimate Mac anchor" - but I figure that my home-made kellet will do the job quite well, for no cost (seeing as I had the makings of it in my basement!) And I'll post any reply I get from the company.