MacGregorSailors.com

trapeze wrote:I have emailed back and forth to Bill at Boats4Sail, and he seems to have a good business. I will order a Jib from him this week.

Thanks for your tip. Meanwhile I will continue to lurk and listen to this discussion.

Trapeze

I think Bill would be a good choice to buy from. But why are you buying a stock Doyle jib when you can do so much better some place else? Try www.cruisingdirect.com and get more for your money.

Dimitri wrote:You would think that the manufacturer (Roger MacGregor) would want to insure some better uniformity of quality at his dealerships. This is usually the model for other similar type products

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Glenn C. wrote:These Mac dealers are the strangest group I've ever seen. Some ok, some bad. I bought my 99 (new) from a dealer who has been in business for 31 years now. He runs it out of his barn out in the country.

Interesting observations. Dimitri, I think you've hit on the key point, that there are no comparable products. Big dollar item, low sales volume.

I think one key to the question is that Macs sell themselves, and at least up to now, there isn't any real competition or alternative. Why else would people be willing to put up with a "dealer" who is little more than a mail order boat delivery service, as one person described the current Havencraft?

If the potential sales volume in a given area is high enough, a "real" dealer with a showroom, installation, service, parts, warranty work, etcetera can be sustained. From what Art told me I believe the original Havencraft may have been turning over five or six boats per week during their peak Spring delivery period, and I got the idea they may have been the largest exclusively Mac dealer in the U.S; they were certainly the largest in this part of the country. That was enough to sustain a five or six person operation. They were the closest dealer for me; I travelled 160 miles to deal with them.

If on the other hand, you live in East Podunk (No offense, guy from MN) where the sales volume is low, I guess you have no choice but to deal with a delivery service type dealer, or travel great distances to a "real" dealer, or simply forget about buying a Mac. And I guess our area is relegated to Podunk status now that the original Havencraft is gone.

I wish somebody would explain to me though, exactly how it is that Otho keeps his "really good guy" image and is not held responsible for the condition of the boats he delivers.

Chip Hindes wrote: Interesting observations. Dimitri, I think you've hit on the key point, that there are no comparable products. Big dollar item, low sales volume.

I think one key to the question is that Macs sell themselves, and at least up to now, there isn't any real competition or alternative. Why else would people be willing to put up with a "dealer" who is little more than a mail order boat delivery service, as one person described the current Havencraft?

Is this a cavalier attitude of MacGregor or is it incompotence on their part. Why wouldn't they certify dealers?

Chip Hindes wrote: I wish somebody would explain to me though, exactly how it is that Otho keeps his "really good guy" image and is not held responsible for the condition of the boats he delivers.

As far as I can see...We were the only one (that I know of ) that got a bum boat (2 actually). Either that, or (begining to beat a dead horse) my expectations were just too high.

He does work with you, bends over backward to make things work. What he did for us:
over $3000 in discounts/free stuff on our M (before the price increase)
gave us a new hull when we complained about the first one (#225 old)
Let us use his demo boat for 7 days in FL
Delivered the boat to our door (MA) from PA (where they are rigged/stored)
He is always accessable via phone and email. Prompt callbacks.

It is too bad the boat was not rigged properly (at all actually) when we got it. Add to the fact that the boat gelcoat looked (looks) like crap.

This is all new to me. Just used to going to Russo (mega dealer in MA) for our old boat. It has been a rocky road. Think most of the issues are dead other than the swirls on the gelcoat. I have to make another pass at that sometime.

He is selling all his boats before they are built, so he must be doing something right. Hopefully his rigger has his act together now.

Paul

the dealer in georgia gets 2 mac's a month and they stay sold several month's ahead,although this dealer is more than competent you could see how some with basicly no competion, would be able to just sell the new boats"as is" and not deal with the service issue..the ga. dealer( boating atlanta) is not too far from I85 on the north side of atlanta at lake lanier and always is helpful when i ask a question,if traveling to fla they might can be of some help to the traveler

Just to add a little more info:

I first started dealing with Otho Campbell in Virginia where his dealership is called New Millennium Sailboats. I believe he already had his dealerships in Virginia and Florida before he bought the dealership in the Northeast from Havencraft.

He also runs a club that is kind of like a timeshare for Macs, where you don't buy a boat but instead use the club boats in their various locations. Details are on the New Millennium site.

I'll add to the above posters that I found Otho to be very good to deal with - prompt responses on e-mail, prompt call-backs. My boat was delivered to my doorstep, and the guy who helped me rig and sail it the first time, Otho's local rep, came back twice to help me out. When I got my boat there were a few minor things wrong - again the riggers in PA who were new to the job - like the main halyard was not led aft as I had ordered, and there was a mark on the gelcoat - Otho had an excellent repair guy (Bob Cardoza) come to me and take care of the main halyard and fix the gel coat at my slip. I figure with something as big and complex as a sailboat, you have to expect a few foibles, it is how those problems get fixed that distinguishes the dealer.

Otho had a 2005 26M at the Newport fall boat show, too.

As to why Havencraft split and sold their parts business separately I do not know. But I do know that MacGregor limits how many new boat dealers and how many "official" parts dealers there are in any region, and the fact that this guy owns macgregorparts.com prevents others from opening up "official" parts businesses in the region.

- AndyS

OK, you guys have convinced me, Otho is a good guy. I hope soon he can get his s__t together to the point that he doesn't have to fix problems because they don't occur in the first place.

Andy26M wrote: But I do know that MacGregor limits how many new boat dealers and how many "official" parts dealers there are in any region, and the fact that this guy owns macgregorparts.com prevents others from opening up "official" parts businesses in the region.

Are you sure of this? Somehow I was under the impression that the agreement was strictly between Otho as the new Havencraft and David Fields of macgregorparts.com and that the Mac factory had nothing to do with it. Though the disclaimer on the Havencraft website says they signed a non-compete agreement in order to purchase the dealership, the is no specific indication that the factory had anything to do with it, and there is no suggestion that you contact the factory if there are problems. I checked the factory website and there is no mention of macgregorparts as an authorized dealer, parts or otherwise.

If in fact this bizarre and totally dysfunctional arrangement is a product of the factory, then it seems to me the factory would have some interest, maybe even some responsibility to make things right, when macgregorparts fails to deliver. Has anyone tried complaining directly to the factory?

dclark wrote:

trapeze wrote:I have emailed back and forth to Bill at Boats4Sail, and he seems to have a good business. I will order a Jib from him this week.

Thanks for your tip. Meanwhile I will continue to lurk and listen to this discussion.

Trapeze

I think Bill would be a good choice to buy from. But why are you buying a stock Doyle jib when you can do so much better some place else? Try www.cruisingdirect.com and get more for your money.

More for your money???

Crusing Direct price: $598.75 for a cross cut design, no uv cover, 6 oz Dacron sail.

Bills price: $190.00 for a cross cut design, no uv cover, 5 oz Dacron sail, and he pays shipping.

I can buy three of these sails and have plenty on money left over for beer.

Where is the get more for your money with CD?

trapeze wrote:

dclark wrote:

trapeze wrote:I have emailed back and forth to Bill at Boats4Sail, and he seems to have a good business. I will order a Jib from him this week.

Thanks for your tip. Meanwhile I will continue to lurk and listen to this discussion.

Trapeze

I think Bill would be a good choice to buy from. But why are you buying a stock Doyle jib when you can do so much better some place else? Try www.cruisingdirect.com and get more for your money.

More for your money???

Crusing Direct price: $598.75 for a cross cut design, no uv cover, 6 oz Dacron sail.

Bills price: $190.00 for a cross cut design, no uv cover, 5 oz Dacron sail, and he pays shipping.

I can buy three of these sails and have plenty on money left over for beer.

Where is the get more for your money with CD?

When I had my sails at the sailmaker having the slugs put on and the UV installed, she commented on how wonderful our Mac doyle sails were for being a production sail. Fit, finish, and overall quality was great. When I told her how much the Genoa was, she said that was about a third to a quarter of what they charge for a similar sail. She recommended when they need to be replaced, to buy them again, she could not compete with that price.


Paul

It's a "racing mentality"....pay 66% more to get a 0.66% increase in speed..

Paul S wrote:

trapeze wrote:

dclark wrote: I think Bill would be a good choice to buy from. But why are you buying a stock Doyle jib when you can do so much better some place else? Try www.cruisingdirect.com and get more for your money.

More for your money???

Crusing Direct price: $598.75 for a cross cut design, no uv cover, 6 oz Dacron sail.

Bills price: $190.00 for a cross cut design, no uv cover, 5 oz Dacron sail, and he pays shipping.

I can buy three of these sails and have plenty on money left over for beer.

Where is the get more for your money with CD?

When I had my sails at the sailmaker having the slugs put on and the UV installed, she commented on how wonderful our Mac doyle sails were for being a production sail. Fit, finish, and overall quality was great. When I told her how much the Genoa was, she said that was about a third to a quarter of what they charge for a similar sail. She recommended when they need to be replaced, to buy them again, she could not compete with that price.


Paul

$190 is cheap. My Genoa from CD was about the same as the dealer wanted. Quality of the North Sail is far better. But that is only because the stock Doyle sail was made by special arrangement for MacGregor and not what they would sell "on the street".

I agree. Before I found the stock sail, I priced the North Sail, street Doyle and several others, no doubt that the street prices are more completive to each other and the North Sail at CD are a good value.

For me, at the price, the stock MacGregor Doyle sail cannot be ignored.

The current dealer prices that I see are $285 Jib, $429 Genoa (www.macgregorsailboats.com). those are sails for the M. I don't really remember what the dealer prices were on the sails for the X, but I'd imagine about the same. I paid < $500 for the CD/North Sails RF Genoa and that included the UV strip. $190 for the stock Jib delivered and everything is cheap.

$190- Great price (Assume it is the jib). I asked my sailmaker for a quote on a 140 Genoa made of the same weight Dacron as the jib with a UV cover and RF luff tape- $1200.

Jeff S

UK Sailmakers charged ~$925 for their Tapedrive 135 mylar Genoa, with
6mm lufftape, but no UV overlay. That was the off-season price, ordered
in Feb 2002. It's a beautiful sail.

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