Voids in water ballast tank of 26M

[Divecoz]

As I was/ may still be to be a new owner to be and I am sure Roger Macgregor has NO desire to start losing sales and becomeing the Bayliner of Trailer Sailors

[kmclemore]

Yes, Chip, please do post your hull number. Thanks.

[Catigale]

SIgn me on for the letter of concern...Stephen

[baldbaby2000]

I too would like to sign a letter.

[Rusty]

And, then there are those of us that are comtemplating the purchase of a for the first time. I'm willing to watch the forum for the conclusion of this drama. In all things production something will eventually slip through the proverbial crack. If this is a trend then I won't be getting a new Mac. I'll look elsewhere. However, I'm willing to give Roger the chance to make good on this.

I'd sign a petition as a prospective buyer if it comes to that.

Good luck,
Rusty

[waternwaves]

Was the ballast tank dye checked........??

what is the leak down rate in the ballast tank??

Those will be questions the factory will ask.. SOunds like theproblem is still in the discovery stage... But I would be real hesitant to sign anything I had not seen myself and checked myself.

Unless of course Moe said it lol....... or maybe Chip......

Seems photos of these leaks (with colored water for contrast enhancemnt) could be posted here....

Good luck

|>

[Richard O'Brien]

' Just checked my rear birth for Disc plugs, and didn't see one. A lot of stuff back there so I only lifted the covers to peak in with a flashlight. NADA! I wonder why one would drill a hole there? Sometimes when I've repaired holes with polyester resin, I've gotten a "cold" joint. no real chemical bond. You have to use epoxy for serious laminations, and repairs. Actually my boat feels and sounds solid. Your situation may be an anomaly. I'll bet Macgregor keeps a record of what crew lays up each hull,and somebody's going to get scorched. That being said, I'm going to coat my liner with a single layer of Kevlar woven epoxy. It only costs a couple hundred bucks, and a couple hours. First for the extra strength, second to smooth out those little fibreglass "whiskers" that snag on everything, and third: to suppress that ubiquitous polyester smell, that lingers 9 months after the hull was made. I wonder if I put a little "Old Spice" in the mix what will it smell like? Sorry about your boat Chip. Just when things were going right ,probably, Huh!

[Divecoz]

Was the ballast tank dye checked........??

what is the leak down rate in the ballast tank??

Those will be questions the factory will ask.. SOunds like theproblem is still in the discovery stage... But I would be real hesitant to sign anything I had not seen myself and checked myself.

Unless of course Moe said it lol....... or maybe Chip......

Seems photos of these leaks (with colored water for contrast enhancemnt) could be posted here....

Good luck


|>

I believe we are all waiting to see proof of this allegation. So how about a posting on a dealer website something to show us all that this is in fact a problem . Passing no judgment at this moment however Troll's are not unknown /unheard of in cyberspace .Proof is in the pudding and that pudding has more than enough time to setup over the next few days IMHO.
Signing :::
Signing is just to assure MacGregor IMHO that the word is out . . . .if its really out at all. . You are not BTW signing away your rights to own a MacGregor or your first born or anything else, but rather showing a need to direct attention to a problem in a positive form . Kind of like a union One person often has no influence or little influence to get changes made or even wrongs corrected by Corporate America but the bigger the numbers the more they listen.
My only stake in this matter is . . .if founded and not corrected , a boat I have researched for months and had all intentions of buying soon . . . .just flew out the window. : ( I will believe the best till I read the worst .

[kmclemore]

I don't really see any reason anyone should need to (or want to) sign anything... it's a simple warranty issue - if indeed it *is* an issue. And the 'owner' needs to take this up with the factory.

But frankly, I'm still waiting to see a commission (hull) number... and I still don't see one yet, so I'm beginning to suspect tolling... and I don't mean for fish.

[Chip]

I apologize for the delay in my viewing of all the responses to my posted message. I just watched FSU get embarassed by the not so good and despised Gators (no offense) on their home Bobby Bowden Field for the first time in 18 years and figured I'd check the board. I appreciate all of the concern, interest, and helpful responses in this time of my great concern.

Please dispense with the idea that I am some sort of imposter. On the contrary, my name is Edgar E. "Chip" Stanton IV and I live in Clermont, Florida and I bought a Mac 2005M from the fine folks at Gateway Sailing in Cape Coral (250 miles away!) in August 2004. Took possession on or about August 28, 2004. Joined this discussion board in September, although I've been reading others' posts since well before then even though I understand about 50% of what I read (my last physics class was 15 years ago and this is my first boat).

As a neophyte in the boating world, I don't even know where to find my hull number, so please advise. I imagine that it is located in a fairly conspicuous place but I just don't know where that is. My boat's construction was completed on August 16, 2004, according to my dealer.

I appreciate the offers for a letter supporting my cause but at this point I think it would be premature. I just informed my dealer last week and I haven't talked to Bill at MacGregor in any detail. I will call Bill on Monday (he was out sick on Friday). I certainly intend to let the dealer take possession (which they also intend to do), and to let them conduct an inspection and then inform me of their position regarding the advisability of repairs versus replacement. I, for one, would rather get a new boat even though that will mean a long wait, considerable paperwork, and a big hassle regarding installed equipment (stereo, engine, depth sounder, etc.).

At the same time, the voids may be isolated and limited in number such that repairs are a viable remedy. I crawled around and looked for other voids and believe that I found some although I don't have the knowledge necessary to pass judgment as to whether they are, in fact, voids or, instead, are something else. I must admit that I have never seen a void before and I am only guessing that the dark spaces at and below the surface of the ballast tank from whence water is coming into the cabin are voids. They are dark spaces that look like holes in which the only thing that I can see is resin without any matting. These "holes" are slightly smaller than the diameter of a penny but water seeps quite readily through them once the ballast tank is filled. There are two holes in the battery compartment, two in the aft berth all the way in the rear of the starboard side, and then there are other apparent holes or voids where no water is actually leaking out yet. Then, there is also the disc that I mentioned previously and it leaks, too.

I agree with Mr. Clemore? that it is a warranty issue and that the dealer will very likely insist on a new boat if a new boat is warranted. I will say this, however. I am very curious as to how the factory's 24-hour pressurized water test (as described to me by Bill of MacGregor) could miss these leaks and the voids producing them. Bill said the same thing when I mentioned leaks to him by phone after my St. Johns trip (but before I had had a chance to find the leaks and their apparent cause).

I will disclose my hull number along with the response of my dealer and MacGregor, once they have had a chance to act. Hopefully, that will be soon, although the distance between us will cause delay, as will the impending holidays. Looks like my Christmas guests won't get to do any sailing...

I have a new but never used high speed digital camera. Let me skim the instructions and take some shots and try to upload photos. I will keep you all posted.

As to the prospective purchasers of new boats, let me say that I really like the boat and I am anxious to get it fixed or replaced. From my reading of this web site, my experience is anomalous. For your sake, I will update this story as soon as possible.

I read on this site that Trapeze lives in my town of Clermont. If you are out there and wouldn't mind comparing ballast tanks, please give me a call. I'd love to look at your tank and compare it to mine before my dealer takes the boat. Please send me an email if you have the time and don't mind comparing boats. Thanks.

[Chip]

Let me reiterate that neither MacGregor nor my dealer has had an opportunity to act on my correspondence regarding ballast tank leaks. As soon as they have had that opportunity, I'll let everyone know the outcome. In the interim, to alleviate concerns of trolling, my vessel identification number (same as hull no.?) is MACM0642H405. If the vessel i.d. no. is not the same as the hull no., please let me know. In any case, what good does that number do you with respect to verifying that I am an owner of a Mac and not an imposter? I apologize for my ignorance. Thanks.

Chip Stanton

[Chip]

I'm sorry but I forgot to respond to WaternWaves questions about dye testing and rate of leakage. Dye, or any other testing beyond the garden hose and flashlight test previously performed by me, exceed my abilities. I'll have to wait for the dealer on that. The rate of leakage is significant. Within minutes, my batteries are sitting in several inches of water. This is interesting since there is no gaping hole and no direct or open link to the tank. Rather, there are what appear to be voids which are filled only with resin. I guess, as Mr. Clemore suggested in this thread, that water will flow right past the resin in such circumstances. That is precisely what seems to be happening in my battery compartment. The water doesn't pour in but rather it seeps through these resin-covered holes. Sorry I can't be more scientific or precise in my explanation. On this note, was it stupid and dangerous for my wife and I to have been bailing out the water in the battery compartment or is not a danger for the batteries to be sitting in water (the water never reached the level of the terminals)? One of the batteries is a marine starter battery and the other is an SVR auto deep cycle, fully enclosed dry cell battery. Thanks.

[Kevin]

The ID number gives a lot of information about your boat. This gives people a rough idea of when you boat was built and which boats might have been built at the same time by the same crew if there turned out to be some procedure issue.

This website http://www.wadler.org/Boating/hullid.htm explains the meaning of the codes.

Your boat is hull #642 built in August of 2004 and is an 05 model.

Just to muddy things up though, my boat the Dwen as well as a couple other unprepped boats I got to see had the grease pencil date that the hull was laid up still on the boat. The Dwen's hull was laid up a month before the hull of another boat that had a later month of manufacture so it would be pretty hard to tell what hulls were made at the same time as yours.

[Idle Time]

The advice about getting a new boat is probably the best. You need to have confidence in your boat or neither you or your wife will have fun. Sounds like you managed to keep things together during a bid time. Tough way to get good experience handling problems on the water.

We hope to be traveling the St John's River just after Thanksgiving. Any tips?

[kmclemore]

...my boat the Dwen as well as a couple other unprepped boats I got to see had the grease pencil date that the hull was laid up still on the boat. ....

Where did you find that pencil mark, Kevin? I've never seen one on mine... are they just on the outside? Or are they inside somewhere?