Shore Power Adapter

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 12:15 pm

Snip

"Just because it is yellow on the outside doesn't make it any better"

Not true - yellow shorepower cords correctly gybe the Centreboard - Bill showed this definitively at the blue vs white hull speed tests this summer...

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COuple of things to consider

1 The minute you plug in a small heater, you have pretty much reached the 15 Amp cord capacity

2 I am assuming you guys are pricing Permanent outdoor extension cords, which I think are more expensive than cords rated for outdoor use. If you are leaving your boat at dock hooked up and the cord outside permanently, this is not the same as just plugging in once in a while outdoors.

3 I use the real Marine cord and 3 circuit (foreward, rear, and battery charger) setup on Catigale - down at Shady if Tony the dockmaster sees any extension cords plugged in they get depowered and yanked asap. See thread above on insurance.

THis is not an area to 'cheap out" imho.

I could understand this if this were for occasional, few times a year use, you did not sleep with this connected, no heavy loads, etc...

If you are cruising up in the Northeast or on the Erie Canal you will run into trouble getting power from docks if you dont have the right equipment.

Jesse Days Pacific Star 2 · Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:29 pm

Chip is correct!! This is one issue not to 'skimp' on.

My humble opinion,
Jesse

Tom Spohn · Post by **Tom Spohn** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:38 pm

This is the one I use. There are other brands that are probably just as good or better. I really like the convenience of not messing with adapters when using this cordset. I also think it is cheap enough that working a multi-piece solution does not make sense.

http://www.boatersworld.com/webapp/wcs/ ... at2=342255

Tom Spohn · Post by **Tom Spohn** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:41 pm

Here is the one from West Marine. Still cheap enough as to be worth not messing with multiple pieces.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... ctId=32305

I also bought one of those plastic bags that zip up the cord when I take it with me for overnight trips. Not a major storage problem.

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:33 pm

Tom wrote:I really like the convenience of not messing with adapters when using this cordset. I also think it is cheap enough that working a multi-piece solution does not make sense.

The Marinco's the one I have as well; more than Duane quoted though I'm sure it's cheaper elsewhere. But anyway, this is only good for 30A service. You still need the 15A to 30A adapter to plug into places which only offer 15A. The Hindes Shore Based Trailer Parking Only Marina (i.e., the yard next to my house) is one such. Though I normally only use it for recharging the battery and an occasional power tool, I've suggested to the operator he might want to nstall 30A service. So far he has resisted my suggestion.

If he upgraded it so I could add AC to the boat, I'd then probably want to move onto the boat since the house doesn't have AC. It's something we usually don't need in upstate NY though occasionally we wish we had it.

Duane Dunn, Allegro · Post by **Duane Dunn, Allegro** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:13 pm

My prices just came straight out of the west marine catalog. If Tom ever wants to plug in to a normal 15 amp outlet he WILL need an adapter. Many of the marina's we visited this past summer up in British Columbia ONLY had 15 amp power so I wouldn't want to be out without an adapter.

I just choose to carry the lighter and cheaper cable as it serves all my needs, along with an adapter for those marinas with 30 amp power. None of the places we have stayed have ever questioned our system. High end Roche Harbor was more than happy to get a 50 amp to 30 amp Y cable for us and even offered to find a 30 amp to 15 amp adapter if we needed. They even ran the cable and hooked it up for us.

I think the main difference is I installed my system for transient use. If I was in a slip full time I might choose otherwise.

Plus just like Chips, my permanent marina parking only has 15 amp power which I can use without any adapters required.

Moe · Post by **Moe** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:36 pm

I HAVE 50' of heavy-duty 30A cable on our Airstream. There's no way I'm carrying all that bulk and weight on the boat, unless, as with the Airstream, we add air-conditioning.

I know from running things off the 13.3A (1600W) continuous 16.6A (2000W) 30 minute peak Honda EU2000, that there are few 120V appliances than even meet or exceed 13.3A. A 1500W heater on "high" is only 12.5A. Even with a charger kicking out 20A, that would be under 15A... and we don't have to run the heater on high.

I'm sorry, but a $75 cable plugged into a $75 30A inlet, running to a $150 "marine" AC distribution panel, feeding $50 worth of wiring and outlets is serious overkill when all we'll be doing 95% of the time is running the battery charger.

Guess I need to figure out how to put my "white trash" MacGregor up on blocks in the slip

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Moe

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:58 pm

There is another factor to consider in the 15A vs 30A power cord scenario

For home wiring, many local codes say you have to have at least 20% overhead in the circuit rating above the expected load. (In Massachusetts, where I do most of my professional work, you can load up to 80% of the circuit rating which is almost the same thing)

...so that 15 Amp 'circuit' should only be used at roughly 12 A or less..

I know nothing about 'marine wiring codes' but the physics are the same and the environment is much worse, so it would be prudent to use the same derating.

When I run my 1000W space heater on Catigale when I work on her in the driveway, the extension cord gets warm...thats a warning sign...

Duane Dunn, Allegro · Post by **Duane Dunn, Allegro** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:18 pm

My electrical needs are much like Moe's, but even smaller. The shore power cord is running my 5 amp marine battery charger. When stored, it also runs my dehumidifier with it's giant 100w heater. Occasionally it is used to charge the laptop, with it's 90w power supply. That's it. The heater we cart around but have never used only has settings for 500 and 1000 watts. We did run our small fan a few times this summer when we were hooked up to shore power. None of my drill motors or saws are a large load. I doubt that even at it's peak use I have ever pulled more than 8-9 amps through the system.

Hence, my low cost installation is perfectly suited for the way it is used. Cheaper cord, cheaper plug, fewer and lower cost breakers inside, lower cost wiring. The only thing I got nicked the same on was the very overpriced 30amp to 15 amp adapter. What a ripoff. $46 bucks for two $4 plugs connected back to back. I was very tempted to make my own pigtail but silly me, I wanted the one piece unit.

I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but trying to make it seem like a correctly engineered and installed 15 amp system is in someway wrong because it is not what you have just isn't right. If you have smaller loads, use a smaller system.

As I've said many times, a Mac is a simple boat, by design. Installing systems in it worthy of a liveaboard around the world cruiser just makes no sense. These are not high end boats that need high end systems. A $20k boat does not need the same systems as a $200k boat even though the marine industry will do it's best to convince you otherwise.

Design your systems to do what you need them to do. Don't get sucked into the gotta match the guy in the slip next door mentality. If 15 amps shore power meets your needs, use it instead of the 30 amp overkill. If a single battery bank suits your needs use, it instead of the multibank / muti switch/combiner waste of money. If you don't mind pumping your water skip the pressure system with the mondo space wasting bladder.

Put in all the stuff you need to make your boat work comfortably and go enjoy boating. One size does not fit all.

A far as the 'normal' vs marine codes, you should note there are NO differences, mainly because there are no 'marine' codes other than the same 'non-marine' electrical codes where they apply. Everything in the marine industry is driven by 'Standards', most noteably the ABY standards. There are no inspectors for standards. They are suggestions plain and simple without the weight or bite that being a code implies.

Manufacturers while encouraged to follow the standards have no legal requirement that they do so. MacGregor in particular never has, nor never likely ever will make any claim that their boats are built up to any standard. Hence, simple boats, with simple needs wired with white non-tinned, non-marine 18 gauge lamp cord and non-marine, non-standard crimp fittings. Some how the lights still manage to work and the same is true of a 15 amp shore power system built with parts from Home Depot.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 4:31 am

Ill offer the following counterpoint on the Electrical System Debate

I do not think it is prudent to use the residential electrical codes for installation of a shore power on a boat - all the debate about legal standards aside.

Here is a simple example - when I wire my bedroom, I strip the 12 AWG Romex about 3/4 inch, then push them into the pressure connectors in the back of the outlet - done.

On a boat, these wires are subject to motion which will loosen the connections, make resistance, which makes heat, which makes ....burned up boats.

Can a low end installation be safe? Yes.
If my needs were modest and occasional, I would run a 15 Amp outdoor cord to a power bar on the boat and use lamps, drill, TV etc. None of the components would be behind the liner where I cant readily inspect them

I dont buy into the "I only need this occasionally so I can under-build it" If you put in untinned wire using pressure connectors designed for home use - using it only occasionally, then you might expect only get occasional fires.

To put it another way, the things which make an electrical system dangerous work their danger whether the system is in use or not.

WHen I put in my 30A shore power I used Tinned wire, crimped on connectors, and screw on type terminals. I also load my electrical system and check the AC voltage drop at each outlet and have added this to my spring checklist to check the system for degradation.

Be safe out there.

Chip Hindes · Post by **Chip Hindes** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:15 am

Duane wrote:I'm not saying it's right for everyone, but trying to make it seem like a correctly engineered and installed 15 amp system is in someway wrong because it is not what you have just isn't right

I'm unaware of anyone stating that a 15 amp system is somehow "wrong". There's nothing wrong with it if it works for you. The same for a 30A system.

Duane Dunn, Allegro · Post by **Duane Dunn, Allegro** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 9:57 am

I'm not suggesting that you underbuild the 15 amp system, or any system for that matter. Mine certainly is not. The only place I depart from your thinking is the need for tinned wire. My boat lives dry and protected on the trailer in the back yard, not floating in a corrosive soup all day. I don't believe, just as the factory doesn't as well, that tinned wire is needed in this application or these boats. I base this on my previous boat, a 1970 Venture (early Mac) which even today being used by my sister has no wiring problems at all with it's un-tinned lamp cord Roger installed 35 years ago. Other than that everything about my 15 amp installation is just as up to snuff as your 30 amp installation. Proper breakers, proper connectors, etc; just 15 amps instead of 30 amps. This is far better than throwing a plug strip on the wall which I would not recommend to anyone.

Tom Spohn · Post by **Tom Spohn** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:43 pm

Chip and Duane,
When I had the boat parked on its trailer at Shilshole I used a converter to be able to plug into the 15 amp service in the North Yard. Since putting the boat in the water so far we have only needed the 30 amp throughout the South Sound and San Juans. I still carry the 15 to 30 converter and will maybe need it when we go to Canada next year. My logic for the 30 amp cord is that most of the time it will work just fine in most marinas without depending on multiple pieces, and the 15 connector might be used as an exception.

Either way the advice from others on the board to get a heavy guage line is good.

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

Shore Power Adapter