Page 2 of 4

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:31 pm
by Russ
Québec 1 wrote:Well there's another one for sailing anarchy. Seems to me Macgregors always make the sinking news in a big way.
It looks like a Mac D to me, and the SA folks don't seem to hate on the D as much. Some of the reports speculate the status of the centerboard. As if that would prevent an overloaded boat from flipping.

Very sad when people do stupid stuff and people die. Very sad.
I wonder why people keep overloading and going turtle with this boat!
Overloading any boat causes problems.

If I understand correctly this one was not registered and the folks on it did not speak english. Could be something fishy here
Indeed a strange set of circumstances.
The boat was from Toms River, NJ where I used to keep my Hunter 34. The boat doesn't look familiar.

Sad story.

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:27 pm
by c130king
Is the 26D water ballasted?

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:35 pm
by Russ
Yes, the 26D and 26S were water ballasted.

More will come out in the investigation. But my guess is this boat was without ballast or it wouldn't have flipped COMPLETELY over. Of course the 10 people (7 adults) on top wasn't smart.

Lot's of early rumors.
Rented boat? If so, the place that rented it to them should not have let them go out. Lawyers are probably at their door now.
Language barrier? Maybe part of it.

Sad story no matter how you view it. Shouldn't have happened.

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:25 pm
by Hamin' X
 ! Moderator Note:
I have decided to move this topic to this forum, for better visibility. It may be moved back to the Front Room when it has run it's course. The Front Room is an "Opt-In" sub-forum that may be accessed by going to your User Control Panel, clicking on the Usergroups tab and joining the Pub Patrons group.

--Available options under this group are: The Front Room and The Back Room. CAUTION: Do not join the Back Room, unless you are willing to openly discuss politics and religion. The threads there can get pretty rough. You have been warned.--

The Pub is a self pruning sub forum that is to be used for topics that do not need to be permanantely archived on the website. Topics drop off after 2 weeks of no-reply status.

~Rich---Hamin' X~

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:07 pm
by rgscpat
It's looking now like "Nessie" may have been a MacGregor 25, so the focus may be on whether the drop-down cast-iron-ballasted centerboard was cranked down and secured with a locking bolt or whether it might have had some terrible failure. It might be possible that ten people moving around on board, mostly non-sailors, could have overwhelmed even intact, properly deployed ballast, but the news media have had some tantalizing mentions of "keel" trouble, i.e. a "missing" or "undeployed" "keel" . And the M25 owners' manual does say the centerboard does need to be locked down for security in the event of a severe knockdown.

Pat -- 1994 Mac 26 S/C, etc.
http://desertsea.blogspot.com

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:34 pm
by pokerrick1
Looks like a Mac 26D to me - - - I know it's a Mac -- - I stopped the video and, using a magnifying glass, was able to make out the MacGregor emblem on the port side aft. 10 souls up top and no board down - - PU - - - looks like life jackets saved the kids and some others. Apparently the two dead were not wearing jackets :!:

Rick

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:10 pm
by mastreb
Okay, I paused the TV on the San Diego news tonight which had video of the boat after it was pulled out of the water. It's certainly a MacGregor 26D. It was sailing with the Jib only so the CE was forward. Witnesses indicated that there were a large number of people on the bow, so the boat was likely plowing.

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:01 am
by left-IS-right
rgscpat wrote:It's looking now like "Nessie" may have been a MacGregor 25, so the focus may be on whether the drop-down cast-iron-ballasted centerboard was cranked down and secured with a locking bolt or whether it might have had some terrible failure. It might be possible that ten people moving around on board, mostly non-sailors, could have overwhelmed even intact, properly deployed ballast, but the news media have had some tantalizing mentions of "keel" trouble, i.e. a "missing" or "undeployed" "keel" . And the M25 owners' manual does say the centerboard does need to be locked down for security in the event of a severe knockdown.

Pat -- 1994 Mac 26 S/C, etc.
http://desertsea.blogspot.com
The news media doesn't know jack. They were calling a 35 footer, saying it flipped because the keel was not deployed, etc. Its not a Mac 25. Kind of looks like one, but the 25 did not have the motor well like this one has, so it is most definitely a 26c whether S or D. Had a feeling it would be a Mac as soon as I saw the headline. Oh well, Roger should be okay, I am sure the statue of repose has long since run its course and expired.

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:42 pm
by trdprotruck
More info with comments from Roger.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/03/29/bo ... latestnews

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:27 pm
by Bobby T.-26X #4767
sad.
that article seems to add some clarity.
my guess is: no filled ballast, too much passenger weight
it's all about common sense...

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:09 pm
by Highlander
Could be some of the ballast leaked out & was not inspected to see if it was still full before departure, but that many people in an mty boat "No Gear" on board would seem to me would out weigh the ballast and if everyone was to start moving around at once well ya no whats going to happen , They say the owner took out 10 people on the boat on many times I'd say that would maybe OK on a small shallow tame river
I guess comom sense does not rule in CA !! :o Very sad to Say :?

J :(

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:09 pm
by seahouse
After seeing that Foxnews link (thanks trdprotruck). Sheesh! To us who sail that’s a pretty incriminating pattern of conduct, I wonder how much of that is true. Hopefully not much. :cry:

A tragedy? Undeniably yes. And it looks like a wonderful charity that’s done a lot of good. As members of the human race, whether we like to admit it or not, we inherently are equipped with poor decision-making skills. But let’s dispense with the emotion just for a minute and look objectively at what happened here.

One of the axioms of the causes of tragic accidents is that one mistake doesn’t lead to a catastrophe. No airplane has ever known to have crashed as a result of one mistake. Very few have crashed as a result of even two mistakes. Life tends to be extremely forgiving and I think we’ve all collected our fair share of “get out of jail free” cards for one or two lapses in judgment and emerged unscathed. 8)

But the majority of serious accidents are the result of a cascade of many events (or “mistakes”) that, unchecked, accumulated to cause the disaster. Auto collisions (don’t you dare call them “accidents”, which implies a level of randomness which is only rarely applicable) are very similar in this respect. This tragedy is a prime example of a situation where a plethora of mistakes were made, and were allowed to build, one upon another, until finally the “ultimate cluster” :o happened.

Not one or two of the events individually would likely have resulted in disaster, (life jackets off, high wind level and wave height conditions, ballast full, leaking, or not, centre board position and status, number of passengers and weight, weight and balance distribution, degree of passenger briefing and their level of experience on a boat), but as they stacked one upon the other, and the sequence was allowed to escalate, at some point the capsize and following result was inevitable. :cry:

So maybe we can look at this and can learn from it.

No, not “maybe”.

Next time you’re in a questionable situation, stop, and take stock of whether or not you’re in such a sequence, how far along you are in it, see where it might lead, and if you can reverse it. And the sooner you notice, the easier it will be to undo it. Anyone’s decision-making skills can improve.

Then we can make sure that such an incident doesn’t even come close to happening to any of us. :wink:

As an aside I must say I’ve also noticed that, while it’s got to be a terrible burden to bear for anyone responsible, directly or indirectly, for harming other people, pointing the finger at everyone else, as is being done here by the lawyer, and at this early stage, doesn’t seem to make the situation any better. I can’t see that his client would go for that. I don’t understand that part. Or, does that really work somehow? :|

-Brian.

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:05 pm
by dennisneal
This is purportedly a photo of the capsized boat that was taken earlier on the day of the incident:

http://www.tropicalboating.com/imagestr/macoverload.jpg

Why on Earth didn't the photographer alert someone, like the Harbor Patrol, or the USCG, that there was a boat being operated in an unsafe manner and report their location???
I'm quite certain the authorities would have stopped the boat.

Also, neither one of the men who died was wearing a pfd, (life jacket), even though they could not swim, and one of them was diasabled.

How sad!

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:26 pm
by DaveB
I see over weighted boats all the time in SW Florida. Just Anchor off Popcorn bay at the slow speed Zone and in a hour you will count over 15 boats way overloaded. Powerboats do have restrictions for seating and load. Most Sailboats do not and one can only be guided to Manifacture specs., Mac. does have a recommended person limit and recommended load compacity.
This Person in charge abused the load and not positioning his guest to sit and exstreamly overloaded.
Common sence was not in order for anyone aboard that boat and should no way reflect Macgregor boats on Stability.
It was a Acident waiting to happen and if he was takeing large number of persons on a regular basis than Marine Patrol,Coast Guard,City Patrol boats, Marine Enviremental boats or the Coast Guard Auxualery or Power Squadren should have noticed.

Dave
dennisneal wrote:This is purportedly a photo of the capsized boat that was taken earlier on the day of the incident:

http://www.tropicalboating.com/imagestr/macoverload.jpg

Why on Earth didn't the photographer alert someone, like the Harbor Patrol, or the USCG, that there was a boat being operated in an unsafe manner and report their location???
I'm quite certain the authorities would have stopped the boat.

Also, neither one of the men who died was wearing a pfd, (life jacket), even though they could not swim, and one of them was diasabled.

How sad!

Re: Sailboat Capsize in San Diego (Merged Topics)

Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:44 pm
by AlaskaMan
Here's another article from the LA Times

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 7804.story

:macx:
Mental Floss