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Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:05 am
by RobertB
I use the sock over a roller furler foresail - wind drag never a problem because part of the setup of the boat before we launch is to remove the covers from both the mainsail and the headsail - really do not feel like doing this underway. I guess it is different if you stay in a slip.
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:24 am
by Terry
If you have hank-on headsails or you trailer a lot you don't really need a sock or uv strip. You simply remove the sails upon each return from sailing. The protection is for those who slip and leave the sails out in the elements all season. This is when you may want to consider some kind of protection for your sails.I have not tried twisting the sock further around the furler, but I will try it this spring. If I am going sailing I remove all sail covers so windage is not a problem. Windage becomes a problem when I decide not to sail but motor to a destination. This is when I leave all sail covers on and depending on wind direction I may or may not have the sock flapping. There is the issue with the zipper cars though and they do wear and have to be replaced and they can only be replaced by BWY if that is where you purchased your sock. You can also choose to have a sock made by a local loft where they use their own supplies and can easily replace a zipper car. The zipper issue could be a metric problem where everywhere except the USA measurements are metric. If you only use one headsail (genoa) then the uv strip is the simplest and easiest route to go. I chose the sock because I have a jib & genoa and may soon get a new genoa.
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:54 am
by robbarnes1965
Sunbrella strip for convenience. The only reason I would have thought a sock would be useful would have been to make sure the sail does not accidentally unfurl in a storm but it sounds like the sock causes it's own problems from what you guys are saying. Seems like it's a lot of extra effort for nothing?
Rob
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:58 am
by arknoah
robbarnes1965 wrote:Sunbrella strip for convenience. The only reason I would have thought a sock would be useful would have been to make sure the sail does not accidentally unfurl in a storm but it sounds like the sock causes it's own problems from what you guys are saying. Seems like it's a lot of extra effort for nothing?
Rob
Yeah. I'm all over that. It does seem much easier just to have the strip sewn on the headsail.
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:43 am
by robbarnes1965
davidbourne wrote:Are these options a must-have have, or am I right to assume you really need these if your sails are exposed often? Like if you slip your boat and leave the sails rigged?
Highlander, nice dual sails. Your boat is the first I've seen to have that setup. Do they work well? They look awesome.
I am not sure how I could live without roller furling again. Both my main and genoa/jib are furling. If you are not going to get a sun-strip, don't get a furler because you will never be able to leave your sail up. If you have to take it down all the time, save the weight, cost and extra lines and don't get a furler. When trailoring often, I would imagine setup is easier without a furler but I have never had one without.
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:45 am
by Crikey
OK, this is where I'm at in this point of the discussion:
No disrespect to anyone's choice concerning foresail socks, but I'm leaning towards the add-on for my genoa leech. My main reasons for that center around noise and chafing problems when moored. It would seem to me from some of the comments here that they can be mostly eliminated by proper handling (twisting), but not entirely eliminated when winds are stronger. As well - extra lines and hardware are required for managing these and zippers can clearly be yet another maintenance issue.
Now the add-on:
Looking at Highlander's beautiful twin kilts, it seems the border is fairly large addition to the overall size of the sail. Because of that, with what must be a fairly heavy fabric (sunbrella) I'm still in the dark about the strength of the attachment point, over time, and whether adding this much extra area (if that was your choice Jim?) can provide a path for having too much sail or extra weight forward when fully extended, in a blow. Obviously dipping his Sporran at the gunnels isn't too much of a concern for Braveheart - but my admiral doesn't like sudden surprises. Moot point - probably!
The color highlight does look pretty cool though!
Perhaps Judy might chime in with some retro technical stuff regarding these accessories?
Ross
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:03 am
by Seapup
Are these options a must-have have, or am I right to assume you really need these if your sails are exposed often? Like if you slip your boat and leave the sails rigged?
For the price of mac sails (jib < $300) its not worth it IMO. If you live in a high UV area or are buying expensive sails it may be worth it. In my area (Virginia) the cheap mac sails last about 5 years with no protection. I would rather treat it as disposable and get a crisp new one every few years than mess with a sock or hang on to a expensive worn sail trying to justify its cost.
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:14 pm
by Kittiwake
Seapup wrote:Are these options a must-have have, or am I right to assume you really need these if your sails are exposed often? Like if you slip your boat and leave the sails rigged?
For the price of mac sails (jib < $300) its not worth it IMO. If you live in a high UV area or are buying expensive sails it may be worth it. In my area (Virginia) the cheap mac sails last about 5 years with no protection. I would rather treat it as disposable and get a crisp new one every few years than mess with a sock or hang on to a expensive worn sail trying to justify its cost.
This was exactly
my take on it when I priced sail covers.
Kttiwake
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:23 pm
by Catigale
If you are not going to get a sun-strip, don't get a furler because you will never be able to leave your sail up.
Ive done this (no strip on furled) since 2002. On second genoa - first one I tore out in high winds.
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:16 pm
by DaveB
I bought a 110 jib that has a 10 inch Dacron cover on the leach. I have had 2 boats with the Sunbrella and my opion it is to thick and when furled on the CDI is much larger in diamiter causeing to much windage aloft.
I love the Dacron and also used a old main that I doubeled over for a width on 10 inches that I cover over the sail when Mast is down on Trailer, this is not a sock and covers only the top and sides of sail so ventilation from bottom is open. This allows air circulation while preventing UV damage to sail. Also prevents rain water from soaking in causeing mildew.
When I am out sailing for 4-5 days the Dacron protects the sail and at storage the cover does.
I am in SW Florida and humidity and heat is a major problem but not with the above method.
Dave
Crikey wrote:Looking at Quebec 1's picture today, I'm wondering whether the addition of a sunbrella type lip to my 150 Doyle genoa is a better/more convenient way (cheaper?) to go than dealing with a bag/sock, when retiring the gear at the end of the day?
Several questions come to play:
Does it impair performance?
Does it add too much weight?
Is there no cost advantage, regardless of ease of use?
Am I missing anything?
R
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:01 pm
by Russ
Crikey wrote:Does it impair performance?
It's a Mac, performance under sail isn't going to get much worse. I really doubt the sewn in cover makes much of a difference.
Does it add too much weight?
I've been told yes. However, I don't believe it. I've seen plenty of Macs with sewn in covers that have good shape.
Is there no cost advantage, regardless of ease of use?
I don't think I could hate my sock any more. Hauling that thing up while on a bouncing sea is dangerous. The reason for a roller furler is to keep my butt off the foredeck as much as possible.
My sock flaps in the wind like crazy. It scares me that it catches so much wind and flops around shaking the whole mast. I'm not going to furl more sheet around the sock. I did that once and the sock looked ridiculous and still flopped around at the top. Maybe the type of sock I have is the problem, but I hate the sock. When sailing, I have to store another cover in the precious storage space below.
Sure, it probably protects the sail better, but honestly I must be a spaz because it's not easy to hoist that thing up and zip it as it goes. I can do it alone, but it's really a two person job. Hold zipper with one hand, pull jib (sock) halyard with the other. Zipper pull tears from my fingers. Dang! Grab zipper again, pull with the other hand. Stop: New zipper section. Align zipper, pull zipper pull to get started, now grab halyard and pull next section up. All the way up? Good, now tie off halyard, tie bottom of sock down so it doesn't pull up. Walk back to cockpit and pull sheets tight. No problem.
I've had it for 4 seasons and this year I'm sending my jib out to have the sunbrella cover sewn into it.
Oh yea, pet peeve: If you have a roller furler, please roll a few wraps of sheets around it to keep the tail secure from catching the wind.
Did I say how much I hate my sail cover sock?
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:52 pm
by Sea Wind
I have the sacrificial sunbrella and I am happy with it. Once you roll the headsail you forget about it instead of having to go forward and dealing with one more thing. I leave my mast up at a marina and one thing that I make sure of is putting a bungee cord around it before leaving the boat.
The sock is about $200 for a Mac which is cheaper than getting done the sacrifical sunbrella at a shop. However, you can get the kit for the sacrificial sunbrella from sailrite for $180 or they could do it for another $200.
Replacing canvas is one of my near future projects. I am going to try some of those kits with and old school Singer sewing machine. We already made sunbrella winch covers and they look pretty good.
Sea Wind
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:16 pm
by Russ
I got a quote from a Doyle sailmaker for $6 per foot of leech+foot to add sunbrella cover.
Anyone got a better price?
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:18 pm
by Crikey
Sea Wind wrote:
The sock is about $200 for a Mac which is cheaper than getting done the sacrifical sunbrella at a shop.
"with and old school Singer sewing machine. We already made sunbrella winch covers and they look pretty good."
Sea Wind
Thanks for that Sea Wind! (and Russ).
Points I've taken in:
A 300 dollar sail (original) isn't worth paying for the extra cost of a sock, or a lip, if you are going to replace it within a normal lifetime period.
Stock, and lighter equals more performance.
In either case, higher winds still induce greater windage than a much smaller wound stock sail.
A more expensive custom replacement sail would justify these solutions, if longevity was a desired option.
Looking good is priceless!
I honestly must say that, given the decidedly lower levels of sunshine our latitude here receives, I don't have to fret nearly as much as our southern neighbors must, about UV exposure and salt degradation. We've also just obtained a bulletproof antique pedal singer for a bimini project in spring, and I can easily see myself attaching a visually attractive lighter grade of sunbrella (or equivalent) that can as well add a little added protection, as long as the basic material isn't too expensive. I'll check that out otherwise I'll just pass for now and just stay with the stock $300 flapper 'wrapped up like a douche, another runner in the night'..
Thanks guys...
Re: Genoa Sunbrella add-on vs sock cover
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:04 pm
by Terry
RussMT wrote:Crikey wrote:Does it impair performance?
It's a Mac, performance under sail isn't going to get much worse. I really doubt the sewn in cover makes much of a difference.
Does it add too much weight?
I've been told yes. However, I don't believe it. I've seen plenty of Macs with sewn in covers that have good shape.
Is there no cost advantage, regardless of ease of use?
I don't think I could hate my sock any more. Hauling that thing up while on a bouncing sea is dangerous. The reason for a roller furler is to keep my butt off the foredeck as much as possible.
My sock flaps in the wind like crazy. It scares me that it catches so much wind and flops around shaking the whole mast. I'm not going to furl more sheet around the sock. I did that once and the sock looked ridiculous and still flopped around at the top. Maybe the type of sock I have is the problem, but I hate the sock. When sailing, I have to store another cover in the precious storage space below.
Sure, it probably protects the sail better, but honestly I must be a spaz because it's not easy to hoist that thing up and zip it as it goes. I can do it alone, but it's really a two person job. Hold zipper with one hand, pull jib (sock) halyard with the other. Zipper pull tears from my fingers. Dang! Grab zipper again, pull with the other hand. Stop: New zipper section. Align zipper, pull zipper pull to get started, now grab halyard and pull next section up. All the way up? Good, now tie off halyard, tie bottom of sock down so it doesn't pull up. Walk back to cockpit and pull sheets tight. No problem.
Terry wrote:
Well, I have to laugh here cause you describe it exactly how it is, I can remove the sock on my own but need wifey to haul it back up
I've had it for 4 seasons and this year I'm sending my jib out to have the sunbrella cover sewn into it.
Oh yea, pet peeve: If you have a roller furler, please roll a few wraps of sheets around it to keep the tail secure from catching the wind.
Did I say how much I hate my sail cover sock?
Well RussMT,
I think it is an accident waiting to happen playing with the sock on bouncing seas. You have to add/remove the sock while tied at the slip.