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yukonbob wrote:I run the engine dry of fuel, and put any extra fuel from the tanks in the truck. Plus I also almost always run premium in all my motors.

Yes ray is correct the 10% that is added by the fuel manufacturer is usually in newer engine tolerances, However I would not be adding any and really almost all of us use portable tanks so its simply not needed and Bob wins the best storage practice award IMHO this is what most manuals recommend.

I guess no one cked out my previous post so will link it.
http://www.cleanfuelmd.com/products.cfm?step=gasShok
http://www.fuel-testers.com/remove_water_gas.html
Dave

Ormonddude wrote:

yukonbob wrote:I run the engine dry of fuel, and put any extra fuel from the tanks in the truck. Plus I also almost always run premium in all my motors.

Yes ray is correct the 10% that is added by the fuel manufacturer is usually in newer engine tolerances, However I would not be adding any and really almost all of us use portable tanks so its simply not needed and Bob wins the best storage practice award IMHO this is what most manuals recommend.

Postby DaveB » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:04 pm
A much better product is Gas-Shok. Water Absorber,Fuel Stabilizer,stops Phase Seperation in Ethanol Fuel.
Cost $15 for 8 oz but treats 80 gals.
What most of the professianals use here in florida with boats sitting 6-8 mo. a year from Snow Birds.
Dave

I read this Dave - Remember I am a cheap SOB this solution has you buying additives and Bob says -

by yukonbob » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:19 pm
I run the engine dry of fuel, and put any extra fuel from the tanks in the truck. Plus I also almost always run premium in all my motors.

now except for the premium remark his storage practice will A.Work B.is Recommended and C.Don't require a costly additive - So in my Opinion wins the Mac Storage Challenge LOL I did't mean to offend anyone.

Alcohol in a 2 stroke is a No No it dont mix with oil meaning a dry start meaning engine damage

Hey Ormondude – add a bit of alcohol to a small amount of oil (even with no gasoline mixed with it, which wouldn’t normally ever happen) in a glass jar, shake, and I believe you will see that they mix quite well. Alcohol can work as a solvent (fairly benign, as solvent go) to clean an oily surface too. Or were you referring to something else in your post?

Well I was curious, so I did (really quick, and really dirty) tests in a clear container and found…

A) 2 cycle oil and methanol (alcohol) together– low solubility – the alcohol actually did not dissolve in the oil, like oil and water- not expected – surprise surprise!

B) 2 cycle oil and Seafoam – high solubility- expected result- no surprise

C) gas and 2-cycle oil mixed (50/50), and alcohol – somewhat soluble, but separated and settled out in a few hours

The methanol I used was from a hardware store brand jug, so its purity is in question (could be half water, which would skew the above results).

So I stand corrected by myself and Ormondude- you are quite quite correct – alcohol does not appear to be a good solvent for 2-cycle oil. Not too relevant in this context because when the gas and oil are premixed the ratio of oil is very low ( eg 50:1) and you would in reality never add alcohol directly to the oil.

- B.

Storing using premium fuel at the start is a good idea not only because it is less likely to contain ethanol in the first place (and all the well-documented associated complications with ethanol, like phase separation) but also because as fuels degrade they lose octane rating.

So if you start the storage period with an octane rating higher than needed for the engine, then by the end of the storage period you are less likely to end up with an octane rating below what is recommended for that engine. And make no mistake- low octane – BAD! Too low an octane rating, and you destroy the engine quickly- eg. melt a hole in the top of the piston.

Alcohol fuels are not used in the field of aviation because of problems peculiar to that environment, on top of the issues that earth-bound engines suffer.

Ethanol fuels are less stable and degrade and lose octane rating (which is partly the reason the alcohol was there in the first place – to RAISE octane) much faster than non-ethanol fuels.

Yeah tkanzler – I have a high-compression V8 in my car, (premium’s all I use in it) and at one time in Canada (the States too) all the grades except premium had ethanol in them. But lately I’ve discovered that they’re sneaking ethanol into it too in some brands. It is supposed to be marked on the pump, but I don't count on it.

BTW – 10% ethanol gives about a 7% decrease in overall fuel mileage for the same octane rating (lower energy content of the molecule; methanol is even worse), which can amount to around 2MPG (and more) for some vehicles. So at the break-even point you can afford to pay 7% (or so) more for non-ethanol diluted gasoline.

-B.

Everything is a trade-off, and emptying the fuel tanks does nothing to reduce the accumulation of condensation inside the tanks. So while there is fresh gas put in for the beginning of the next season, that gas tank has more water at the bottom of it than if the tank were kept full with a minimal airspace at the top.

Add Seafoam or Sta-bil to a full tank and you will have fresh gas, and minimal condensation at the start of the next season.

Assuming that the tank vent is not closed in both cases.

-B.

I get the gas out of my tanks at end of season and put it into the cars. Once the sun starts showing herself again end of March, I rinse the tank with a bit of dry gas (methanol) and let them bake dry on the driveway for a few hour.

Only water in fuel issue I have had has been when I dunked the outboards......

How often do you reccomend dunking your outboard,and for how long, has this helped your Trim at all??

Just giving my solutions and thoughts, take them as a grain of salt but this forum is about how's to and any advise I would think could help.
I do use it and never had any problems. A certified Machanic that only goes to boats to service them and trouble shoots them gave me the info.
My 2.5 hp outboard sat for 9 mo. with this and in Jan. on our cruise it started first pull and ran smooth. That 9 mo. of Ethonol Gas sitting in tank.
Dave

Ormonddude wrote:

Postby DaveB » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:04 pm
A much better product is Gas-Shok. Water Absorber,Fuel Stabilizer,stops Phase Seperation in Ethanol Fuel.
Cost $15 for 8 oz but treats 80 gals.
What most of the professianals use here in florida with boats sitting 6-8 mo. a year from Snow Birds.
Dave

I read this Dave - Remember I am a cheap SOB this solution has you buying additives and Bob says -

by yukonbob » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:19 pm
I run the engine dry of fuel, and put any extra fuel from the tanks in the truck. Plus I also almost always run premium in all my motors.

now except for the premium remark his storage practice will A.Work B.is Recommended and C.Don't require a costly additive - So in my Opinion wins the Mac Storage Challenge LOL I did't mean to offend anyone.

I agree, keep the tank full so moisture doesn't bleed thu the tanks.
I have used both and they work well. The cost of the Gas-Shok for treating the gas cost about the same per gal. but adds the Phase seperation of Ethanol fuels.
It also can be used in 2 cycle outboards.
Dave

seahouse wrote:Everything is a trade-off, and emptying the fuel tanks does nothing to reduce the accumulation of condensation inside the tanks. So while there is fresh gas put in for the beginning of the next season, that gas tank has more water at the bottom of it than if the tank were kept full with a minimal airspace at the top.

Add Seafoam or Sta-bil to a full tank and you will have fresh gas, and minimal condensation at the start of the next season.

Assuming that the tank vent is not closed in both cases.

-B.

Its a lot easier to get any water out of an empty tank than to get the water out of the gas thats in the tank

Your missing the point. Empty steel tanks causes interior corrosion in tank. Why you need tank full,also prevents corrision when filled.
Do a research on Winter storage in Boats.
Same thing about you doing a oil change before layup for winter and another before launch.
Depends were Latitude and conditions your in.
Just take care of that Puppy to get you home safely.
Dave

yukonbob wrote:Its a lot easier to get any water out of an empty tank than to get the water out of the gas thats in the tank

I have both 250g and a 125 g diesel steel single walled tanks that hold heating fuel auto filled all winter (outside), and the biggest and simplest problem they have is water build up settling under the diesel and rusting out the bottoms (over an insurable lifespan of 15a). The same reason the outlet draw is 3" above the bottom of the tank, is to allow for water settling in the bottom, so as to whatever the tank is feeding doesn't get plagued with water. Id figured most would be running poly tanks. Whats the reason behind your steel tanks?

How often do you reccomend dunking your outboard,and for how long, has this helped your Trim at all??

At least three times and my trim is just fine, thank you

Catigale wrote:

How often do you reccomend dunking your outboard,and for how long, has this helped your Trim at all??

At least three times and my trim is just fine, thank you

Yeah, well, you're younger than I am.