Bahamas versus the Keys

[jklightner]

They probably don't want you in Mexico due to the high theft rate there. Many cruisers and tourist get ripped off there, and sometimes by the police. One of the last places I would what to go. I think Cuba would be cool though

[Chip Hindes]

They probably don't want you in Mexico due to the high theft rate there. Many cruisers and tourist get ripped off there, and sometimes by the police.

I have not heard this is the case at all. Though my experience is limited and I've never been there with my boat, it's been 100% favorable. The sailing magazines seem to think Mexico is a pretty cool destination. I believe quite a number of our West Coast brethern have made the trip from San Diego to Ensenada. I believe one of the guys on the Board has a house in Cozumel as well; perhaps he can comment.

Many Americans' whole experience in Mexico is limited to the border towns, where such a reputation may be deserved. Though even there I'm not so sure that a few isolated incidents haven't been taken out of context and out of proportion to the vast majority whose experience is positive.

Certainly it pays to be careful. But I'm pretty sure Mexico on the whole is no worse than some of the other Caribean Islands for which my insurance company has no restriction.

In any case, Mexico is on my list of places to visit with the Mac, so I'll eventually be finding out why my insurance company doesn't cover me there and what I need to do to remedy the situation.

[Divecoz]

They probably don't want you in Mexico due to the high theft rate there. Many cruisers and tourist get ripped off there, and sometimes by the police. One of the last places I would what to go. I think Cuba would be cool though

Being at least a part time resident and home owner on Cozumel I was wondering anyway????
Yes your in a 3rd world country for sure and you would need to lock your boat just like anywhere else home included. The biggest rip offs IMHO and many others as well are the time share's and that group of thieves was developed to a new high or lownesss and then exported from the States to the Carribean. Food is very reasonable in Mexico and purified water is about $1 for 5 gallons . . and Gas about $2.50 gallon as of 2 weeks ago.

[James V]

The Keys or something else? The keys has its pro's and con's. So does the Carribean. Do you want to be in town all the time or or on a deserated island?
The Carribean is not 3rd world. They are just poor. Some places you just don't go to and the cruisers in the area know them, just like some places in the US.
Crime - well, Florida has more than it's share of boat thefts. It is not made known. I would lock my boat more in Florida than in the Carribean.

Another thing that is not mentioned is the skill level of the captian and crew. Cruising has been said to be doing your own repairs in far away places. In the Keys, it is close at hand. In the Carribean, well .... it just depends where you are. So, do you want an adventure or a vacation?

The greatest cause of people falling overboard is using the rail as the head. It is deshearting to be in the water at 3am, in the middle of the Gulf stream, watching your Mac moving away at 15 knots with the rest of the crew asleep. You just need to learn what to do and what not to.

IT is a different feelling to take your Mac to another country than another US Island.

IT is Great to wake up on deck, on a island, with no people, boats, or noise than the waves, water and birds.

I would recommend that you go with somebody.

[Divecoz]

The Carribean is not 3rd world. They are just poor. Some places you just don't go to and the cruisers in the area know them, just like some places in the US..

third world

Underdeveloped or developing countries, as in The conditions in our poorest rural areas resemble those in the third world. This expression originated in the mid-1900s, at first denoting those countries in Asia and Africa that were not aligned with either the Communist bloc nations or the non-Communist Western nations. Because they were for the most part poor and underdeveloped, the term was transferred to all countries with those characteristics, and later still to poorer groups within a larger prevailing culture.



Source: The American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer.
Copyright 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

third world

n : underdeveloped and developing countries of Asia and Africa and Latin America collectively [syn: Third World]



IMHO if you still have gravity feed water supply to the faucet and that is. . undrinkable and you toss not flush and the political norm is corruption and graft and social programs not provided by outsiders are un heard of . IF. . . You have little chance to improve what your parents provided for you. etc. etc. Now need it be the worst of Africa to be 3rd World or India for that matter THAT is all in each persons opinion I guess. To some, all but the G-7 are Under-developed.
Back to the subject . You'd be safe in and along the Coast of Mexico as many are living there on their boats as we speak . No doubt you will not find everything as you might wish in Celerain or Santa Clara as you will find in Cancun or Cozumel or Chetumal. But you'll get by.
Now here in lies my question . Can you not see just about every island in the Bahamas without ever being more than a hundred/100 miles from land? That's from Florida to Bimini from West End to Matthew Town. That too sounds like an interesting trip BTW.
Another question is ; How similar or dis-similar is the 26 X or M to a Catalina 27 . I know that one of those made it from New Orleans direct across the Gulf to Cozumel. Next trip down I am going to sit and buy beers for Dan to hear all about that voyage.

[jklightner]

That was due to some reading online of the magazine "Latitudes" out of the Bay Area. Full of stories of cruisers getting ripped in Mexico. While perhaps percentage wise it is low, still must be a significate problem if the insurance companies will not cover it. Guess it is a numbers game, how lucky do you feel? Myself, I can play 2 rolls of quarters and not get even a cherry payoff.

[Divecoz]

So I and others can better understand . Just what happened to those folks who got ripped off in Mexico.
Robbed at gun point ? When and where. East Coast ? West Coast?
The waters on the west coast are a bit rough from what I read, to get to Mexico and on the East Coast is a long open water voyage considering you (USA) can only land in Cuba under life or death situations. Heck I am honestly interested . I would like to go to Coz someday and not by putting it on the ferry boat to Progresso.

[Chip Hindes]

While perhaps percentage wise it is low, still must be a significate problem if the insurance companies will not cover it.

Objection, your honor; Assuming facts not in evidence.

We don't know why my insurance company doesn't insure for Mexico. We also don't know that all insurance companies have the same policy. In fact the only one I know of that doesn't is my own, USAA. It may well be that other U.S. companies don't, but so far the only one that's volunteered such is me.

When I rented a car in San Diego, they made it a point to tell me the car wasn't insured for travel to Mexico. So before driving it toe Ensenada, I stopped at a drive thru insurance company (in San Diego) and was in and out in about five minutes; I don't recall how much but it wasn't particularly expensive.

I believe it had something to do with special licensure required by Mexican law. Possibly the same for boats.

[Divecoz]

Now I think I know why Chip!! Mexico does not recognize out of country Insurance Companies. You must partner with a Mexican Company as like with Car Insurance . That BTW I have had to do . Buy Mexican Car Insurance when we drove from Chicago to Cozumel and back . 14 week vacation in the dead of Chicago winter with youngest daughter house sitting for Mom and Dad for cutting her a deal on an apartment rental hahahahaha Dad won one for once

[jklightner]

Divecoz:

Here is their website:

www.latitude38.com

Check out the Letters sections

another interesting site:

www.yachtpiracy.org

[Divecoz]

The "letters" website is very long tehehehehe. Which year which month?
I have been living and working on Cozumel part time since about 95 or 6 traveling to there for extended periods since about 91 or 2 in all those years I have never heard a story of Pirates in our little section of the world . I will send a few e-mails out asking but its a small island and rumor and gossip travel very fast and I would be surprised if something happened that was not talked about or wasn't in one of our local papers . We do have BTW 3 WWII single engine fighter aircraft that patrol the sky's over Coz and Cancun always on the lookout for "fast boats" and the USCG is there regularly as well as the ??World Navy??.

[Chip]

The reputation of the Mexican border towns is very much deserved. The streets of the border towns are controlled by Mexico's largest rival drug cartels and the corrupt police who serve them. Recently, federal Mexican troops were sent to, I believe, Nuevo Laredo, a TX border town, to take it back from the cartels who have been kidnapping and murdering U.S. citizens who have dared to visit over the last 18 months. IMHO, you would have to be crazy to walk or drive into one of those border towns today (especially drive - it has been well known for decades now that the police will steal your car and, at the least, require you to pay them to retrieve your car). The State Department states: "It is not uncommon for Americans to become victims of harassment, mistreatment and extortion by Mexican law enforcement and other officials."

I am aware that 16 million Americans visit Mexico each year, and I once did it myself, but that does not make it safe or wise to venture into a border town. The State Department states: "Kidnapping, including the kidnapping of non-Mexicans, is increasing. U.S. businesses with offices in Mexico or concerned U.S. citizens may contact the Embassy to discuss precautions to take. Travelers to Mexico should exercise caution when traveling on all highways in Mexico. The U.S. Embassy advises its personnel to exercise extreme caution and not to travel on Mexican highways after dark for safety reasons."

Finally, I quote a very recent unknown internet source:

"This Public Announcement is being issued to alert U.S. citizens to the current security situation along the Mexican side of the U.S.-Mexico border in the wake of increased violence among drug traffickers. Although the majority of travelers in the region visit without mishap, violent criminal activity, including murder and kidnapping, in Mexico's northern border region has increased. The overwhelming majority of the victims of violent crime have been Mexican citizens. Nonetheless, U.S. citizens should be aware of the risk posed by the deteriorating security situation. This Public Announcement expires on April 25, 2005.

Violent criminal activity along the U.S.-Mexico border has increased as a product of a war between criminal organizations struggling for control of the lucrative narcotics trade along the border. The leaders of several major criminal organizations have been arrested, creating a power vacuum. This has resulted in a wave of violence aimed primarily at members of those trafficking organizations and criminal justice officials. However, foreign visitors, including Americans, have been among the victims of homicides and kidnappings in the border region in recent months.

Mexico's police forces suffer from lack of funds and training, and the judicial system is weak, overworked, and inefficient. Criminals, armed with an impressive array of weapons, know there is little chance they will be caught and punished. In some cases, assailants have been wearing full or partial police uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police vehicles, indicating some elements of the police might be involved.

U.S. citizens are urged to be especially aware of safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. The majority of the thousands of U.S. citizens who cross the border each day do so safely, exercising common-sense precautions such as visiting only the legitimate business and tourism areas of border towns during daylight hours. It is strongly recommended that red-light districts and neighborhoods where street drug dealing occurs be avoided."

[Chip]

That last, long quote also originates from the U.S. Dep't of State.

[Divecoz]

I read it and I don't doubt it , but as recently as a couple months ago a middle age retired lady school teacher we know from Michigan. . . basically drove from Detroit to Cozumel and now Drives all over the Q.Roo and Y.T. all the time. There is also a group or crusty old Harley Riders /RUBs that Winter in Mexico and Belize and they get there ? Yep on the Harleys every year . I would suggest,. . . though I have never had problems in any border town myself . . .that you head right to Aduana and Immigration get your papers in order and high tail it out of town to the 50 click stop and then . . . .enjoy your trip there really is nothing to see and do in those towns anyway (? ) . I have numerous friends of all ages who have and do tour thru Mexico all the time . Never a problem fascinating trips /Adventures . Two friends towed a Two-man sub from Coz to Brownsville's in . . . .26 straight hours
On the other hand I dare you to stroll down the wrong side of any major city(Chicago for one) in the USA. Major cities are all the same to some extent. Then again don't go to Mexico at all. . . as all you tourist are just driving up the prices

[Chip]

I hear you. But looks like you'd have to be pretty foolish to walk across the border to Nuevo Laredo these days. I'm sure the Harley gang ain't hanging out on the street corner in that town. Deserters of the Mexican Special Forces are putting bullets in the backs of skulls in that town. I don't know how Juarez is doing these days, but in recent years, you'd be foolish to hang out there as well. The State Department is not making this stuff up.

And I would no more stroll through the streets of Nuevo Laredo than I would through the ghettos of U.S. cities. Foolish either way. The State Department's announcements speak for themselves. Most get through without incident. An increasing minority does not. A key distinction between crime in Mexico and crime in the U.S., of course, is that police corruption is rampant in Mexico and extremely limited in the U.S. Obviously, the risk is worth it to millions of Americans and more power to them. Mexico has a lot to offer. The only point of my post was to make it clear that the reputation of the border towns is very well deserved, and increasingly so.

By the way, the drug war has spread to Cancun. Venture away from the resorts and you are asking for trouble.

Debby Downer over and out.