Got in some trouble in rough seas.. What'd i do?

[cptron]

Reading this post has made me realize that i may have something to learn. I ordered mine today.

The 67th Ed. of Chapman's Piloting was just released. I've had a pre-order on Amazon for a few months and it just arrived today, oddly enough.

Matt

[dxg4848]

Nearly got rolled by 2 large waves approaching in close succession from nearly directly astern.

Choppy seas, occasional larger waves (2 feet maybe but large for the bay) wind was apparently gusting to 20 and was generally steady at 12 knots. Beautiful in the river though

There is no way 2 feet wave can roll a Mac with ballast full. It is like heeling. Some people can tolerate more heel some people can tolerate less. One way or another you may felt uncomfortable, but I don't believe you were even close to being in danger if you had full ballast tank.

[Ixneigh]

Those conditions do not seem severe enough to actually roll the yacht. With the center board down, the wrong sail set, and the right 2 foot wave, one might experience a sudden heel to 40 degrees...ive done that after an uncontrolled jibe with too much main up even without a wave helping. Surfing larger wave s like 5 or larger, could result in a spreaders in the water knock down. To actually roll the boat 360 would probably require either a serious %@*&-up on a bar, or weather so bad there wont be anyone else out in it!
as stated above, no board down, reefed main or jib only, out the motor down, place heavy stuff in back berth, like water jugs, when running in windy conditions.
Ix

[Catigale]

(In my slight defense, she's the navigator and in charge of weather.)

Yeah, careful with that one Captain. The skipper is responsible for the crew, 100%. Not to mention Captain/Admiral relations can be strained at sea..with consequences for the doghouse at home..

[RobertB]

Those conditions do not seem severe enough to actually roll the yacht. With the center board down, the wrong sail set, and the right 2 foot wave, one might experience a sudden heel to 40 degrees...ive done that after an uncontrolled jibe with too much main up even without a wave helping. Surfing larger wave s like 5 or larger, could result in a spreaders in the water knock down. To actually roll the boat 360 would probably require either a serious %@*&-up on a bar, or weather so bad there wont be anyone else out in it!
as stated above, no board down, reefed main or jib only, out the motor down, place heavy stuff in back berth, like water jugs, when running in windy conditions.
Ix

I generally agree but if I am in rough seas, I have learned to keep to 6 knots. In that case, I also find about a foot of daggerboard is useful in trying to maintain control.

[BOAT]

It's true, you are safe, even when the sea is big, if you can stay in the boat, you should be okay.

Chapmans has good advice about storm achors, droughs, oil, and other stuff that can help in a prolonged gale. When I was a kid I used to read Chapmans all the time. It looks alot different now than when I was a kid.

My dad used to say: "The only two books you need in Life is the Bible and Chapmans Piloting&Seamanship" he would say: "Both books help you steer a straight course".

[WASP18]

Reading this post has made me realize that i may have something to learn. I ordered mine today.

The 67th Ed. of Chapman's Piloting was just released. I've had a pre-order on Amazon for a few months and it just arrived today, oddly enough.

Matt

I ordered the 66th edition available from Amazon. There can't be much difference for me as a MacGregor sailor and the price at $26.89 is MUCH CHEAPER. I don't expect to be a master of ships, so the price was worth it.

[island808]

I picked up whatever ed. Came out in 2003? Cost me about 8 bucks

[kevinnem]

sort of late joining the conversion , but do you think you would have been better off with the wave coming at an angle, rather then directly behind?

Seems to me that if I had rough sea, I would like "gybe" back and for , rather then running with the wind, and letting the wave hit be from behind.

[island808]

sort of late joining the conversion , but do you think you would have been better off with the wave coming at an angle, rather then directly behind?

Seems to me that if I had rough sea, I would like "gybe" back and for , rather then running with the wind, and letting the wave hit be from behind.

Think the book says to let it run directly onto the stern. Otherwise you can accelerate down the wave into the trough crooked and turn broadside to the wave. And the next wave will surf you sideways and lay you over.

Its a sucky way to be traveling. I wonder if drifting backwards with a drift anchor against the wind would work better.

[BOAT]

It's not the same for every boat. If you have the rudder over (behind) the stern like on the MAC then it can get real dicey real fast - the following sea slams the rudders and if the wave hits your rudders from behind, for that split second that the water is moving across the rudders in the wrong direction it can make the stern go in the opposite direction you intended.

My old A23 had the rudder down below UNDER the boat a good 2 to 3 feet away from the stern - she took the following sea quite well. The MAC does not.

In a following sea, if you are under sail (which I highly recommend) raise the DB almost all the way and try to hold a broad reach. (VERY broad). Flying a kite can help with the steering too for you guys that have ASAPS already know that. Sail with the headsail in a following sea - real loose and puffy so the sail is as high up in the air as possible.

If you must be under power in a following sea just raise the rudders out of the water - u don't need them, and why risk the damage? You will be getting a much worse ride under power but you will be safe as long as you stay with the boat.

Worst case throw out a drag anchor.

[Catigale]

The rudders and linkages are probably the weakest part of Macgregor boats - and the parts that really definitely keep in the coastal cruising only class.

In a following sea, if you lose way, the wrong orientation of the rudders at the wrong time - once - will simply snap them off and leave you in bad states.

MadMike did a huge expensive strengthening of the rudders and heads before his epic cruise.

[BOAT]

The brackets would be easy enough to fix by just adding stiffeners to them, but with real stiff and strong brackets would the rudders break?

That's my concern.

Yes indeed, the number one cause of shipwreck is loss of control. I guard my rudders as if my life depended on it. It's a real weak link on the MAC. It's something that needs attention from one of those engineer guys we have on the boards.

[RobertB]

As one of those engineers that you guys only listen to if you absolutely have no other course of action

What is breaking when hit by a following sea? If the rudder, get an IDA rudder since they seem to be more robust than the stock one. Or is it the brackets, the internal mechanism?

[Catigale]

Both are weak in stock form, and manufacturing variances in the Mac can endanger the transom too,,,,