Had a bad day

[BOAT]

Oh Russ, I guess you don't have a Perko Switch. I guess what Catigale was telling us was to make sure the switch was OFF but some of us have a few things wired BEFORE the Perko so there is still power in those circuits.

[Russ]

Oh Russ, I guess you don't have a Perko Switch. I guess what Catigale was telling us was to make sure the switch was OFF but some of us have a few things wired BEFORE the Perko so there is still power in those circuits.

Yes, not good practice. The point of the Perko switch is to have a way to positively disconnect the battery. I believe the only thing recommended to be direct wired is an automatic bilge pump (fused of course).
This is why you would want that big Perko switch.

[BOAT]

Yeah, what I did was mount a powered terminal block inside my pedestal - one side of the terminal block is power (+) the other side is ground (-) and when i want to install a chartplotter or a dial or a guage or switch or something or send control signals to relays and stuff I have around the boat I just have everything I need right there to power them up.

I think I better re-rout the power line to that terminal black to hook up AFTER the perko switch.

I sure do feel bad about that MAC X boat in those pictures.

[Russ]

Yeah, what I did was mount a powered terminal block inside my pedestal - one side of the terminal block is power (+) the other side is ground (-) and when i want to install a chartplotter or a dial or a guage or switch or something or send control signals to relays and stuff I have around the boat I just have everything I need right there to power them up.

I think I better re-rout the power line to that terminal black to hook up AFTER the perko switch.

I sure do feel bad about that MAC X boat in those pictures.

I like the power block, but you should also put an inline fuse to the lead going to that block. Moving it would allow you to cut all power from the Perko switch though.

[Y.B.Normal]

SeaGriff, Sorry about your loss. I've been through 2 boat fires (neither one mine) so I know how scarey they can be. I'm glad no one was hurt.

Note the second picture. It graphically illustrates WHY you don't stand up in a fire. Note that the seat cushions are only a little damaged, while the areas above the cushions are charred or burned. I saw this in a house once where the fire burned itself out. The outside of the doors of the upstairs bedrooms were charred and almost started burning, the center of the doors were brown, and the section of the doors near the floor were fine. I could only imagine what would've happened if someone had come out of the bedrooms, into the hall, and into that heat.

ALWAYS carry a fire extinguisher in your cars and trucks. The vehicles you save may be your own.

Dale

[kurz]

Oh Russ, I guess you don't have a Perko Switch. I guess what Catigale was telling us was to make sure the switch was OFF but some of us have a few things wired BEFORE the Perko so there is still power in those circuits.

Yes, not good practice. The point of the Perko switch is to have a way to positively disconnect the battery. I believe the only thing recommended to be direct wired is an automatic bilge pump (fused of course).
This is why you would want that big Perko switch.

Well I don't know if it is really practicable.
I like putting the perko to off, but the fridge has to stay on, going to the battery and wired to the solar panel, controled by an auto on/off (13volt).
It makes no sense that the fridge is off when I leave the boat. Is to say that all the lines, also the fridge line, has a flying fuse.

As long as we do not know the reason why it burned...
And next: Who puts the perko to off during the night when sleeping??? --> no cabin lights etc...

[RobertB]

My initial take from this until there is more definitive information is that all circuits must be fused. A high resistance spot in a circuit is most likely to result in a high current thus blowing a reasonably sized fuse or breaker.

[BOAT]

I think we need one of those engineer smarty pants types that are all over this site to give us some tips on how to isolate and find issues in wires.

I don't even know what kind of gauge to use to troubleshoot wires!

Should we check every line for resistance? How do you check a line to see if there might be a short staring up? I assume the only way to really check a wire is to put it under load?

Some of us are not really fully educated on this stuff - we figure it's just a matter of the positive going to the positive and the negative going to the negative, but there are a lot of things we can do to help prevent fires? Like what's the equipment ground all about? Is that an AC thing only?

[Russ]

Oh Russ, I guess you don't have a Perko Switch. I guess what Catigale was telling us was to make sure the switch was OFF but some of us have a few things wired BEFORE the Perko so there is still power in those circuits.

Yes, not good practice. The point of the Perko switch is to have a way to positively disconnect the battery. I believe the only thing recommended to be direct wired is an automatic bilge pump (fused of course).
This is why you would want that big Perko switch.

Well I don't know if it is really practicable.
I like putting the perko to off, but the fridge has to stay on, going to the battery and wired to the solar panel, controled by an auto on/off (13volt).
It makes no sense that the fridge is off when I leave the boat. Is to say that all the lines, also the fridge line, has a flying fuse.

As long as we do not know the reason why it burned...
And next: Who puts the perko to off during the night when sleeping??? --> no cabin lights etc...

Another question: Who turns their Perko Switch OFF and Why?
On my Hunter, I never turned it off. The OFF was for emergencies and winter storage. On the Mac, switching to OFF would be a good practice when trailering. I don't have a Perko switch, but turn all panel switches off when I leave. That leaves only 1 live power lead active to the panel and it has a fuse at the battery terminal.

I guess the reason for wiring the bilge pump direct is so that you can switch the Perko to OFF when you leave the boat and still have a way to pump water.
As you mentioned, turning it OFF doesn't work if you need things turned on like fridge and alarm systems.

My solar panel (after the controller) is wired to a fuse that goes to the main lead on the switch panel. When we left the fridge on, we would leave only that switch turned on, cutting power to everything else.

There is plenty of marine wiring information out there. Much of it is overwhelming. I use standard 12v practices and add extra weatherproofing. I solder almost everything because of vibration on our boats. Stranded wire and heavy enough for the maximum possible loads.

All this does make me want to inspect all my wiring again. Probably something that should always be done on a regular basis.

--Russ

[BOAT]

Yeah, Russ is right. Our boats go bumping down the highway at 60 miles per hour - none of those fancy boats at the yacht club do that - I bet all their boats would catch fire in an hour after taking the kind of bumping and vibrations that our MACs take getting into the water and back.

He's right - how do we secure the wires? I see them all over the place - I think I might put soft foam around all my wires - that's what the Navy does on the LCAC's up here on the Marine Base. Those things rattle like a can of bolts so they have everything covered in soft foam like the kind you see in our cushions. (I think I see why they have all their wires exposed too). When you get into one of those Navy boats there are huge bundles of wires all above your head covering the ceiling.

Concealed wires are fire traps.

Those pictures make me scared.
I'm gonna put some hatches below those wire bulkheads in the MAC that are on either side of the companionway - there is just too much "stuff" in there. I think I will cut out almost the entire bottom part of that compartment and reconfigure it with a hatch for easy access like the Navy does it. My hunch is that area is the problem.

[Russ]

Those pictures make me scared.
I'm gonna put some hatches below those wire bulkheads in the MAC that are on either side of the companionway - there is just too much "stuff" in there. I think I will cut out almost the entire bottom part of that compartment and reconfigure it with a hatch for easy access like the Navy does it. My hunch is that area is the problem.

Me too. Thinking it's time to inspect/simplify all the wiring for safety. I know I have some things that are not secured well. Who knows what happened to this poor captain, but it could have been something very simple.
My next job will be to secure all loose wiring and ensure every circuit is well fused.

--Russ

[Ixneigh]

That's a sad sight. Any time but esp. At the start of the boating season. I switch the battery switch to off whenever I leave the boat. I have some fused solar panel leads and some outside lights that are also fused wired outside the switch. It's always possible to forget to switch stuff off though. Would like to know the cause.
Ix

[SeaGriff]

Kmclemore thanks for fixing my links. YBNormal that second pic shows only smoke damage.
That thick black smoke from the smoldering plastic blackens everything especially higher up.
Boat you lose the donut. The fire didn't start behind the electrical panel. My X was a 97 the
electrical panel is on a short lateral wall aft of the kitchen counter. It doesn't take a large wire
to produce a lot of heat.
So what happened? After looking it over and thinking it through I think I have figured it out and
as is so often the case with these things human error was a major contributor. On the way to
Kentucky I had problems with the brackets holding the motor up coming loose. It's a 25 hp without
power tilt. So when it came time to come home I didn't want to have the concern of losing parts or
having the motor fall down. So I removed the motor and put it into the back of the truck (it's covered)
When I disconnected the power cable from the battery I did so at the battery. I had 2 wires to connect
the starting battery with the house battery for charging or boosting. The negative was always connected
and the positive I could connect with an alligator clip at the starting battery when needed. When I disconnected
everything I never gave it a 2nd thought as I was disconnecting the battery so loose wires shouldn't be a concern
but I didn't stop to think that the other end of two of those wires were still connected to the house battery.
They bounced around in the port side storage area under the cockpit seat for 2800 kms before coming into contact.
Everything else from that compartment I had thrown into the truck and my fuel tank was in the opposite compartment.
Would a perko switch have saved it ? Probably but even that isn't 100% as it takes approx. 10 ft of wire to connect the
two batterys and no matter where you put the perko switch you still have 10 ft of live wires with the potential of shorting
out. Will my next boat have a perko switch ? Definitely. As for my next boat we are heading into retirement and plan on
spending more than weekends on the water. So something bigger is what we have in mind. If Laura would only make a 35 ft
with 10 ft beam. We definitely want it to trailerable and have a retractable keel. The only thing I can seem to find is the
Seaward 32RK. I know its extremely pricey. Any opinions on this.
Seagiff

[Wind Chime]

Thanks for the PM Carl, and the good information above.

Like a lot of us, I will think of you whenever I am near my batteries and electric circuits. Your time spent to share your tragedy will help us all not to repeat it and stay save. And for that, we thank you!

Good luck finding your new 35' trailerable.

Darry

[yukonbob]

So something bigger is what we have in mind. If Laura would only make a 35 ft
with 10 ft beam. We definitely want it to trailerable and have a retractable keel. The only thing I can seem to find is the
Seaward 32RK. I know its extremely pricey. Any opinions on this.
Seagiff

Check out the BC and Washington coast. There seems to be a great deal of deals to be had on all boats that are capable of going anywhere. If you're considering a bigger boat that is