MacGregorSailors.com

Ixneigh wrote:Nuh uh!
Ix

I agree with Ixneigh on this one.

Rudders down and daggerboard 50% down I find our tracks really wellie to 7 knots which is the speed I cruise at when motoring. If fuel usage is an issue I drop back to 6 knots and get much better economy. Over 7knots I raise all rudders and daggerboard and push the throttle to get to 14knots ASAP. Then the boat steadies again.

Yet, in between this range (some would say... ) the boat wallows like a Walrus. There are other way to tame this beastie, but some two by four outboard oar is not one of them - at higher speeds. I use an outboard hydrofoil for the purpose of directing prop thrust, alongside with better overall steering, but hanging an extra drag surface off your rear better come with some appreciable additional positive benefits as well.
The boat sails well, but doesn't possess rock-solid directionality under power, due to lack of chines.
R.

The X boat probably is better at the motoring stuff.

It's better at getting on the plane

= 5% v hull
= 15% v hull

This makes a a better sailer, but an will get on plane "fasterer".

BOAT wrote:The X boat probably is better at the motoring stuff.

Sometimes in early morning after sailing out the harbor mouth the wind will just die.

I have dropped the main and furled the genny and pulled up all boards and started to motor out to sea to get better wind and one time I had the throttle down pretty low like maybe 5 or 6 knots and just for the heck of it I reached back and pulled the gate valve open. Slowly I could feel the boat start to pull out of the water!! It was really cool! The boat got higher and higher and the boat went faster and faster and I never touched the throttle! It was kinda neat to me (a person who has little experience with motor boats). It was like as if all the water's "stickyness" suddenly went away. I know that's a lame explanation but that's the best I can do. The feeling of being higher up in the air was definitely noticeable, but I failed to check to see how much faster i was actually going because we went so fast the next thing I knew we cleared the pier line and it was time to shut down the motor. We got clear across from the harbor mouth to the pier down the coast in like 3 or 4 minutes!! (Usually about a full ten minutes sail!)

On longer hauls when the weather is calm I’ll run without the ballast in. We usually see a 3knt increase in speed and longer range. I don’t bother figuring out fuel mileage but it does make a difference. However we have been caught where two to three footers pop up on a tide change or when the wind picks up. It can be a real PITA filling the ballast completely full when you’re pitching around in the waves. I’m sure it’s only a few gallons that doesn’t make it in, but I like having it right full if things get rough.

I've had some success reversing for a few minutes getting the last amount of ballast to fill, as the seas build. Sometimes get a little pooped into the engine well. I also did a ballast valve extension modification that makes it quick and easy close the valve while standing at the steering at the steering pedestal,

yukonbob wrote:On longer hauls when the weather is calm I’ll run without the ballast in. However we have been caught where two to three footers pop up on a tide change or when the wind picks up. It can be a real PITA filling the ballast completely full when you’re pitching around in the waves. I’m sure it’s only a few gallons that doesn’t make it in, but I like having it right full if things get rough.

Wind Chime wrote:I've had some success reversing for a few minutes getting the last amount of ballast to fill, as the seas build. Sometimes get a little pooped into the engine well. I also did a ballast valve extension modification that makes it quick and easy close the valve while standing at the steering at the steering pedestal,

yukonbob wrote:On longer hauls when the weather is calm I’ll run without the ballast in. However we have been caught where two to three footers pop up on a tide change or when the wind picks up. It can be a real PITA filling the ballast completely full when you’re pitching around in the waves. I’m sure it’s only a few gallons that doesn’t make it in, but I like having it right full if things get rough.

Another good reason for a tank gauge on the ballast tank. I know you guys are always making fun of me for being so anal about the level of water in my ballast tank but it sure would make it easier to know when to shut the gate valve in choppy sea if I had a gauge. I really need you guys that know about gauges and stuff to tell me if there is a float gauge or something that will work thru that little hole in the vent bowl - I would rather not drill a hole in the ballast tank to get a water level sensor in there - (well, I won't drill a hole to do it). I thought you guys were all mechanical engineers geniuses and stuff, still no ideas?

I still use the low tech vent in the V berth to check the level. When water comes out the top it's full.

Probably cheaper to put a mini cam on it, viewed back at the helm somewhere...

R.

Are there any guys out there that are in the kind of business that does water level sensors or float switches or stuff like that that know of web sites with lots of goodies?

Lots of good reading here. Great possible solutions.

I'm the OP and was looking for better tracking for longer treks.

Annually we tow "The Other Woman" out to Dana Point, then make the crossing to Catalina (about 40miles). Every single time we've done this, the winds were basically non-existent, thus the motoring. No autopilot, so following a GPS course becomes tiresome with the constant correcting from left to right (I'm taking constant!). I've been motoring at around 7-9 knots (8-10 mph) and the trip usually takes about 9 gallons of fuel and about 4.5-5 hours. This is with the boat loaded, 2 people, and towing the dinghy. Also with no ballast. For the record, I have tested the wandering at the same speed with full ballast, and it made no difference to me. Without actually doing a MPG test, I'm kinda skittish about bumping the speed up to 12+.

Our boat is right at 10 years old, and I'm sure that the steering could use a tune-up. For starters, I plan on replacing the motor to steering bar linkage with a heim-link (one end loose for tilting) to take up some of the play. As far as removing any play in the actual steering mechanism in the pedestal, I'll have to give that a look for solutions. I honestly have no idea what to, or how to adjust anything in there. There IS play there however. About 90 degrees worth. For example, if I turn the wheel to starboard while moving the motor until my hand is at 12:00, I can turn the wheel to 9:00 before I can feel the play end. I don't know what the rest of you folks have, but that seems "too much" to me.

Never thought about the "almost planing" scenario that Mastreb surfaced. Thanks for that. This "instability zone" may be the biggest problem that I'm fighting.

I've adjusted the trim tab initially when I got the boat. This was to fix the problem of "harder to steer one way rather than the other" at speed.

With all that said, here's my to-do-list:
1. Replace the stock steering bar to motor linkage
2. Open up the pedestal and look for things to tighten/replace in the mechanism.
3. Run a fuel (MPG) test at various speeds to determine sweet spots, and limits.
4. Do some MPG tests with a bit of dagger board down.
5. Buy and install an autopilot!

Thanks for all your suggestions!

Harrison wrote:Lots of good reading here. Great possible solutions.

I'm the OP and was looking for better t . . . . . . . . . . . .

Thanks for all your suggestions!

Are you in an X boat? Or is it an M? Honestly guys, I have not experienced all these tracking problems under power that you guys are talking about - I feel just a slight pull to one side but only when I am at full wide open throttle and that goes away if I let the water out of the ballast tank.

I'm running totally stock except for the BWY steering link to the motor, so there must be some sort of answer to this issue without requiring bolting on extra stuff to the boat motor. I do have very little slack in my steering - I have less than 1/2 inch and I mean LESS, in fact it is very hard to move my wheel without noticing a slight movement in the rudders. Is that the answer? Just get the slack out of the wheel? I can't see how it would help any because the rudders are not even in the water when we are under power so is it maybe the BWY linkage I am using? Perhaps a slight adjustment to the length of the BWY linkage might be the answer?

BOAT wrote: Are you in an X boat? Or is it an M?

It's an M.