to paint or wax topside...when is it "OK" to start thinking paint

[PAWSEIDON]

Hi DemItri,

So If you are referring to the Forward and Sliding Hatch on Pawseidon, I reinstalled the forward Hatch last weekend. Before I can put the Sliding Hatch back, I need to finish making new rails. I'm making them out of Mahogany. Teak was just too expensive.

Removing all the bolts is proving challenging. I got all the bolts off the Port side. The Starboard side is proving difficult. The forward most bolt also attaches the Swing Keel Line pulley. The nut is not accessible from any good point. I have read on a different post that to access the aft bolts you need to remove the bolts that hold the wall of the head in place.

I did finished painting both hatches, with the sliding hatch sitting in my garage waiting on the rails. I never tried to upload a Pic before, but if it works, here is my sliding hatch. I'll take a PIC of the forward hatch the next time I'm down at the boat.

[Newell]

I have mostly re-finished the bottom of Fast Sunday, first fairing with 3M green filler,. Spot painted all patches using a small Harbor Freight gravity feed cheapo gun using One-step White Marine Gelcoat. This is the same white that is on the Macgregor. This gun can spray vertical but is very slow. Re-configured by old suction feed with a new gasket and have sprayed a cover coat over 3/4s of the bottom. Boat is on blocks and I ran out of paint. Bought a gallon from the Bottom Paint Store and plan to finish as soon as I get the leveling system on the RV fixed.

Working in hot weather and just getting older, I got a fair finish but plan on doing some fine sanding to get it back to a like new finish. It's a alot more work than I estimated.

Getting back to the thread, I have painted the black and more on my D with black One Step Gelcoat. Used my trusty spray gun and it has held up well. I store this boat under a tarp mostly. Will try and attach a picture.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

Hi DemItri,

So If you are referring to the Forward and Sliding Hatch on Pawseidon, I reinstalled the forward Hatch last weekend. Before I can put the Sliding Hatch back, I need to finish making new rails. I'm making them out of Mahogany. Teak was just too expensive.

Removing all the bolts is proving challenging. I got all the bolts off the Port side. The Starboard side is proving difficult. The forward most bolt also attaches the Swing Keel Line pulley. The nut is not accessible from any good point. I have read on a different post that to access the aft bolts you need to remove the bolts that hold the wall of the head in place.

I did finished painting both hatches, with the sliding hatch sitting in my garage waiting on the rails. I never tried to upload a Pic before, but if it works, here is my sliding hatch. I'll take a PIC of the forward hatch the next time I'm down at the boat.

Your hatch looks good in blue paint but it does sound a bit difficult to get out...and if you go to that trouble, I wonder if you can do something to prevent the screech and the loss of gelcoat in the track too.

I think I have problems on all 3 hatches...sliding, forward and anchor locker. I suppose those could be painted separately since those are the problem areas. I just wonder whether its a good idea to diy paint stuff a bit at a time or just spring for the whole professional job. In the mean time, I guess I'll wait some more.

[Idiotfool]

Windancer looks pretty good for an old girl. Have you painted the deck? On the Macs I’ve been looking at in Florida, most have thinning gel coat and I’m wondering how well a DIY coating can be made to look and how well I can expect it to hold up. Additionally, what sort of prep did you do for the dimpling (assuming older Macgregors have non-slip texture).

PAWSIDON, how about your hatch? What prep did you need to do. It looks great and I’d really like to see a pic when you remount it.

[PAWSEIDON]

Yes, this all started with the objective of just fixing the screech when you slide the Hatch Open. It snowballed from their.

If you just want to remove the hatch, their are a few posts that describe how to do it without removing the rails. My original rails were so weather worn that it was painful just to look at them. Same with the Hatch Door rails. So I decided that if I was going to do this, might as well jump in with both feet. All I have to loose is money and time.

To address your option of just having it done professionally, let me quote an old boss of mine who once responded to a question when I asked how all the different projects he was managing was going. Without skipping a beat, he responded "I have no problems that MONEY CAN'T FIX".

When our boat was in for repair for the Helm, I asked for a quote to do the paint job. This turned out to be way outside the budget. Like $7,500 on top of the repair for the helm and the bottom paint. So for my wife and I, this was not an option.

When I decided to remove the hatch and replace rails at minimal cost,but a lot of sweat equity, it just seamed like the opportunity to address the faded gel coat and the black patches. So for a couple of 10 foot Mahogany 1x2's from Home Depot and a number of spray cans of paint, and some new hardware (machine screws and nuts to reattach the rails to the hull) I was off and running on my spring/summer boat redo. Yes, it's taking a lot longer then expected and I'm loosing some wonderful days on the bay, but I think it will be worth it in the end. Not to mention being able to say, YA... Spent 6 months on this but look how great it turned out. At Least I'm hoping I'll be able to say that.

[PAWSEIDON]

Windancer looks pretty good for an old girl. Have you painted the deck? On the Macs I’ve been looking at in Florida, most have thinning gel coat and I’m wondering how well a DIY coating can be made to look and how well I can expect it to hold up. Additionally, what sort of prep did you do for the dimpling (assuming older Macgregors have non-slip texture).

PAWSIDON, how about your hatch? What prep did you need to do. It looks great and I’d really like to see a pic when you remount it.

Just basic prep, nothing to in depth. Started with a good scrum down. Used 220 grit on an orbital hand sander on the smooth surfaces. Lightly hand sand over the non-slip sections just to clean the surface and give the paint something to stick to.

I used Auto Paint Primer and three coats of Auto Dupli-Color Spray paint. I then applied about 4 coats of Spar Urethane. Basically until the entire can ran out.

Now letting it cure and waiting for the rails to be done before remounting. Will send PIC when this is done.

[Newell]

Windancer looks pretty good for an old girl. Have you painted the deck? On the Macs I’ve been looking at in Florida, most have thinning gel coat and I’m wondering how well a DIY coating can be made to look and how well I can expect it to hold up. Additionally, what sort of prep did you do for the dimpling (assuming older Macgregors have non-slip texture).

Windancer was key-holed after a race, the other boat's prow entered into the starboard cabin, leaving a nice 12" hole. I patched both the inner and outer sides and painted the patch white it blends in quite well. I haven't painted any non-slip areas. I wouldn't be afraid to try but would apply something like Aurora Sure Step before using the boat. Surface prep is always key to getting a good job, with gelcoat and some automotive paints, mistakes like sagging and runs can be sanded and polished out if you're dedicated.

Getting too damned old to be dedicated lately. 77 next week.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

@PAWSEIDON Thanks for the $7500 price quote, not sure where I got the $4-6K in my mind but maybe someone gave me a bait and switch price at some point, who knows cause a lot of years have gone by.

@Newell Happy Birthday - I was racing on a J40 at DIYC a couple years ago that got t-boned during the starting sequence of a beer can race. Two out of the 3 shrouds holding up the mast were broken as well as a big hole in the fiber glass. The couple who owned the boat took the insurance settlement and donated the boat to a boys' club instead of fixing it. There was a big hearing about the insurance blame, who was on starboard and all that good stuff...in the end, they won that settlement since there were plenty of witnesses.

Getting back to the topic, I'm fast approaching 60 myself and have a lot less ambition to start big projects than I used to (when I was more naïve about how much work it really entailed..lol). Cause if its more like 6-8 grand to have the whole boat professionally painted (and another 8 grand for a new motor which is always possible when your current one is over 20 years old), that's more money than the boat is even worth so it does beg the question about whether its worth it. No way you could ever get your money back out of it so it would have to be something that you do because you have invested so much of yourself already in that boat and you want to keep it until you can't sail no more...otherwise, sell and buy something newish (which I noticed does not seem to exist anymore in terms of a powersailor).

[OverEasy]

Hi All

We sincerely hope everyone is surviving the COVID-19 storm that has been engulfing so much of the world this past 1-1/2 years.
We just hope everyone is still healthy and happily fixing and sailing and motoring along.

For the most part we’ve given up on birthday counting after a half dozen decades.
After that many years and retirements the numbers got to lose some of their meaning.
Especially when taking a worldwide pandemic into consideration.

My Dad used to say these three phrases regularly as I grew up:
“Yesterday was time spent, Tomorrow is time hoped for, Today-NOW-is the only time one truly has…. Make the most good of it.
That way if you look backward you can smile at the accomplishments and distance traveled, If you look forward you can hope to make things better than they were, and Today is the enjoyment of one’s work, life, and relationships.”

“When in doubt, always at least try to do the next right good thing.”

“Don’t throw pearls before swine. It’s a waste of good pearls and it only annoys the pig.” (AKA: “Life is too precious to suffer fools too gladly”)

We agree…All projects seem do seem to take more time the older we get.
As such we Really appreciated reading all you comments on the pro/con of paint vs. polish.
We have been contemplating this issue for a while.
We are having the bottom paint applied soon and the rub rail replaced at a boat yard.
The mere thought the thought of accomplishing personally DIY bottom paint just makes what’s left of my poor old back whimper
Attempting a solo DIY rub rail replacement is also a non-starter.

But it looks like the timing for wax and polish is due also so this discussion is something we are considering.
We pressure washed the hull and top side this past spring to give Over Easy a good long overdue bath.
Power Wet down to loosen the crud — Simple Green soak — detailed power wash clean-up.
Lots of “white” drain water.
Top deck is pretty chalky and really don’t see much residual wax gloss.
Hull still has some faded gloss and not really all that chalky.
So the question remains as to is it worth the effort to get Over Easy polished/waxed/buffed or painted?

Seems that the wax routine should be something of an annual thing when the boat is unprotected as Over Easy isn’t covered.
Seems that the Alexseal paint should hold up for several years before needing to be redone.

If buff-wax-polish is chosen then it means having to pay someone to do it as back issues preclude a DYI attempt.
If paint is chosen the the wipe de-wax and roller application with light sanding between coats is something that might be within the limited DIY capabilities of the old back. (Slow and steady…..Slow and steady…)

Hmmm…. The painting route is looking more promising as we have written this out…

Guess we need to call up Alexseal and talk to them and get some multi-year application references.

—>> Has anyone out there had any personal experience using Alexseal paint on their boats?
—>> How was it to prep and apply?
—>> How has it lasted? Fade? Flake? Shine?

[Herschel]

Good to see the thread "reactivated". I still haven't painted anything, although my front hatch is a good candidate. I found a boat detailer that will clean and wax everything from the rub rail up including the cockpit for $200 at the slip. So, I had him do the Fleetwax in early spring. Will probably do the whole boat from the waterline up in the fall for $500. But, during the winter, I will think hard about painting the front hatch with something that will blend in and look right. I'll be bringing it home on the trailer to do some mods to the V-berth and see what I can do with that hatch. My main focus over the winter is prepping for a spring cruise from Sanford, FL to St. Petersburg, FL, sort of a mini-loop using the St, Johns River, ICW, Okeechobee Waterway, and Gulf ICW and/or coastal sailing.

[OverEasy]

That sounds like a fun mini loop!

Am I correct in assuming that a wax and polish is sort of an annual or so thing down here in the southern states when storing a boat outside?
We still rather newbies to the effect of geography on our Mac26X.

[Russ]

We pressure washed the hull and top side this past spring to give Over Easy a good long overdue bath.
Power Wet down to loosen the crud — Simple Green soak — detailed power wash clean-up.
Lots of “white” drain water.
Top deck is pretty chalky and really don’t see much residual wax gloss.
Hull still has some faded gloss and not really all that chalky.
So the question remains as to is it worth the effort to get Over Easy polished/waxed/buffed or painted?

It sounds like you have prepped/cleaned the boat well for the next step. Surely most of the wax has been removed by your steps.

Once you paint, you can't go back. I'm not familiar with Alexseal. My dad's boat got hull damage in Hurricane Sandy and painting was the only option. In my opinion, paint should be used in specific situations where Gelcoat is not performing (glass coming through, extreme cracking). Professionally applied paint can look amazing. However, I've seen some amateur paint jobs that look pretty bad.

I've considered painting the black raccoon stripes. They constantly fade and I honestly don't like the look of them. The Tattoo had less black stripes and it looked better. But unless my gelcoat is damaged beyond restoration, a "wax" is the way I would go.

I FULLY understand the back issue. I've been wanting to paint the bottom but that chore is over my physical abilities. However, I've found the solution to my aching back is power tools.

I bought a decent polisher and a lambs wool pad and with some 3M fiberglass restorer or compound managed to buff the gelcoat back to a glossy shine. One of the best investments I've made.


For years I've tried every form of wax. Fleet wax, Marine Wax, Carnuba wax, you name it. Nothing was satisfactory for my new shiny blue hull that the polisher made. It looked amazing in the driveway until the boat got splashed. Water spots quickly dulled it and the side that got sun would oxidize over the summer. It was a dreaded chore every Spring only to watch my hard work slowly disappear.

Then one rainy weekend this winter I spent several hours watching Drake's boat detailing videos. One thing I've learned is to learn from those who do detailing for a living. And I also learned from his videos, using the correct products makes a job so much better.

Drake doesn't use wax. He claims it doesn't last. (My previous efforts prove he's right). He uses polymer or on high-end boats ceramic.
He also doesn't use elbow grease, he uses machines. He insists using a Dual Action Polisher. He uses a $500 professional one, however for the rest of us, a halfway decent model will work. I bought this one.


Using a microfiber pad, I applied "Jescar Sealant" which is a polymer. The machine made the work easy. Then after half an hour (minimum time to penetrate) a microfiber rag to wipe it off. It's really not that back breaking.

Drake swears by Jescar. He claims unlike wax that when splashed with salt water or lake water with minerals will leave water spots, this product will sheet water down the hull. So far it's working. The boat's been floating over a month now and no water spots like I used to get. The blue hull especially shows water spots (Note: Although pretty, I would not buy a blue hull again).

My suggestion is to watch his videos and decide for yourself. Or hire someone to do it using these products before pulling the trigger on paint where there is no way back.

Drake's videos are very informative and he links to products he uses below each one. Very well done.




Racoon stripeless Mac. I kind of like it.

[Herschel]

Russ remarked:

For years I've tried every form of wax. Fleet wax, Marine Wax, Carnuba wax, you name it. Nothing was satisfactory for my new shiny blue hull that the polisher made. It looked amazing in the driveway until the boat got splashed. Water spots quickly dulled it and the side that got sun would oxidize over the summer. It was a dreaded chore every Spring only to watch my hard work slowly disappear.

I can appreciate that having a shiny blue hull get stained with water spots is discouraging, but I will say that I have used Fleetwax for a couple of years now after I gave up on NewglassII. I just could not keep up the annual renewal protocol required of the NewglassII, so I turned to a professional detailer, and he was only familiar with waxes. Boat (as I recall) recommended Fleetwax, and my detailer told me it was the best product he has come across. I have found that on my white 26X, Fleetwax seems to last a good six months even in Central Florida weather. I don't notice any chalking during that period and the boat seems to "wash down" nicely automatically with heavy summer rains. I am falling into a twice yearly waxing of the upper decks and cockpit and single waxing of the sides. "American Spirit" is going on its 23rd year with about 18 years of that in full Florida sun. Except for my forward hatch Gelcoat looking a little thin, I am pretty pleased with her appearance and the performance of Fleetwax. I took these shots yesterday after I got her ready for tropical "witch" Elsa.

[mallardjusted]

Russ, Jescar looks pretty good. Another alternative is RejeX, which is also a ploymer. You can find it on Amazon, and is a little less expensive. I've been using it on my boat and vehicles the last couple years, and I'm impressed with it.

[Dimitri-2000X-Tampa]

This seems like a nice old thread to 'bump'.. @Hershel, did you ever paint your boat? Russ obviously takes good care of his, mine is too far gone to wax now after almost 25 years in the FL sun with hardly anything but cleaning. I did a paint job on the deck/cockpit of my little 17 foot boat a few years ago and it was a lot more work than I thought (isn't that a well used phrase with this sort of thing). On the video that Russ posted, I wonder how much a detail job like that costs on a mac26....must be over 500 bucks these days...and the full paint job, probably be more than $7500 what with all the inflation since Covid. A full makeover with paint, repower, etc would cost more than I paid for the boat 21 years ago...not sure if its worth it on the old gal, so I just hope my chalky boat doesn't offend anyone and keep kicking the can down the road... I suppose the hull sides might be recoverable but not the deck. Oh well, people say she looks like a very well traveled boat full of great adventure memories...and she has been, here is a pic of her last December docked in Key West...just to the FL keys, she has made about about a dozen trips over that many years...oops, different topic..



I think the view from the dock is better though....this is what the old 'Oceanside' Marina looks like now that its been converted into a fancy resort (OceanEdge). Back in the old days a lot of Mac folks used to launch from here on Stock island. Now there is a fork lifter for their expensive high/dry storage instead of a boat ramp. oops, sorry, off topic again.