MacGregorSailors.com

Did Roger sell the plans or molds?

Good question.

I think that’s probably a no, but it looks like someone did.

pitchpolehobie wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 1:23 pm Did Roger sell the plans or molds?

No. They were most recently in the possession of his daughter, Laura Sharp, and her husband, and I believe they still have them.

That being said, it would be quite easy to obtain a decent Mac, carefully disassemble it, and then make molds if the main pieces. From there it's just down to making new Macs from those molds.

Or, Laura and her husband sold them. They don’t seem to be doing anything with the Tatoo. Just saying, that’s all.

Molds must be expensive to ship, but I’m sure stranger things have occurred. The Hisin 26 goes back to at least 2014.

Yeah, it would be WAY cheaper to make new molds then to ship them to China.

I'm not convinced Hison has made a single Macgregor 26. The pictures all seem doctored and reused.

Hi All

So maybe MacGregor’s kids sold the molds … at least someone is doing something with them … or maybe not.

Shipping stuff isn’t all that expensive and making production molds is actually a bit of a challenge .

So if this Chinese company is/was making new Mac-a-like boats is that so bad?
The challenge for any business that would attempt making new Mac-a-like boat is that there a considerable existing population good quality articles in the used market which would tend to keep prices low (imo).

From the lack of current chatter or marketing alone with the photos it seems to probably be a one off that doesn’t seem to have gone further.

You just don't understand

NiceAft wrote: ↑Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:24 pm Or, Laura and her husband sold them. They don’t seem to be doing anything with the Tatoo. Just saying, that’s all.

Molds must be expensive to ship, but I’m sure stranger things have occurred. The Hisin 26 goes back to at least 2014.

I’m confused 🫤🫣

So would it be a “good thing” or a “bad thing” if someone restarted the manufacture and sale of “Mac-a-like” motor sailboats ?

I’m not about to say I know the answer by any means.

It seems that MacGregor had his reasons for stopping production when he did. He made a choice that worked for him. ( Mind you if I had several $ million $ and the opportunity to have bought his operational company back in the day I think it would have been a fantastic opportunity… but that’s just me as I don’t, never did, & probably never will have the kind of $$$ it would require to properly operate that kind of concern …never mind the requisite business acumen required to do so successfully if I’m to be entirely honest).

I think it would be good, if not great, if someone were to be able to do it though…

Now if the MacGregors heirs wanted to go back into production I would have thought they would have done so by now… but for their own reasons they haven’t. So if they sold the molds to someone who does want to undertake the challenge then all the more credit to them for recognizing the value of a cell well designed product and it’s potential.

(While I’m definitely not a fan of the government of China there is no point in blindly bashing everything about it just based on a myopic perspective. The economic deregulation of international trade and promotion of offshoring of US manufacturing and production that was promoted stating back in 1981 in the name of free market capitalism that enabled corporations to shutdown domestic manufacturing directly enabled the massive economic growth in China which we contend with today.)

There are good companies everywhere and good people too (just as there are not so good). If this Hisen company can actually figure out how to make a legitimate copy of a Mac26M then how is that a bad thing? There are good competent people the world over so technically they have the capability. Good quality Glass fiber and resin are manufactured across the world so that isn’t a barrier. Fiberglass production techniques are well understood and utilized around the world as well.

So I’m still confused as to why someone attempting to make a a “Mac-a-like” is an issue?

Laura Sharp (Roger's daughter) made a post somewhere a while back claiming the Mac M molds were no longer usable. They have a lifespan and have been exhausted. I assume they are either rotting away somewhere in Florida or have been scrapped.
A video from Mike Inmon claimed the X molds were cut up and destroyed.

So, it seems the Macgregor 26 can not be manufactured any longer.

A Chinese company can easily use an existing Mac to illegally create a knock off. But that is one of the complaints about Chinese intellectual theft.
My concern with most things Chinese is quality. The Mac was already built as a low cost boat. What quality would a Chinese knock off be built like without the years of experience Roger brought to the Mac 26 line?

I think it's bad to steal any intellectual property, even if the owner stops manufacturing.

Roger wrote this about the Golden age of boat building. It's written like the old salt that he is.

https://www.macgregorsailors.com/goldenage.html

Thanks Russ,

That was quite the enjoyable little read.

It’s not as nice looking at all as Rogers version. (The contrasting stripes)
But why make a copy of a nearly 2 decade old design? Surely they could come up with their own power sailor model with distinctive elements that set it apart, and perhaps above, the Mac.

Aside: I wonder why the kids didn’t just sell the business to so to else instead of letting it Peter out.

Ix

Aside: I wonder why the kids didn’t just sell the business to so to else instead of letting it Peter out.

Really good question Ixneigh!

Maybe it had to do with second generation’s…. Rodger started the company in large part because of his particular personality and internal motivations… a desire to make something and prove something … to himself … for himself. He was atypical in many respects.
His kids had their own lives and motivations and directions … that didn’t necessarily align with running a manufacturing concern based upon a unique creative passion.

Rodger seems to have struck a balance for himself and his company that fulfilled him up to the point it didn’t anymore.
He made a choice to just end it and leave things on a high note as it were without further obligations.
Giving the tools and molds to his kids was possibly a gesture to them if they wanted to pursue it ….on their own.
Moving it cross country to Florida wasn’t a move that was in the best interests of a manufacturing company given the physical, business and talent climates inherent of Florida. It’s a hard place on many levels to set up and actually make things… especially compared to Southern California… but Rodger could see the writing on the walls and recognized that for him it was time to pivot…

Lucky for us there were a lot of MacGregors already made!!!

As far a Hison goes the “intellectual property” aspect might be a hard one to argue unless there were actual patents filled and maintained domestically and internationally which is somewhat doubtful given the nature of the product. The ‘aspect of uniqueness’ comes into play.
The Mac26X and Mac26M are particular layouts of an age old theme… some executed with better and some with less … they are not the only trailer sailors nor are they the only motor sailors or the only trailerable motor sailors… Now the “look-see-touch” aspects of the Hison are definitely similar to the Mac26M no doubt… but form does follow functionality.

Not having actually seen the Hison ‘Mac-a-like’ in person or being able to evaluate it I can’t say it’s better or worse than what the MacGregor factory produced. What I can say is that there is every possibility that Hison may have made an equally good or possibly better product as there are many regions in China that have been manufacturing fiberglass boats of all sort for many years and have technically competent people. To bash something just because you personally don’t like where it came from isn’t a valid approach. The people involved are just apt to be good comment people as anywhere.

Having spent most of my career in highly competitive environments and industries I’ve come to recognize that good people, ideas, talents and capabilities exist everywhere and in places least expected. If anything, it flattering that Hison would mimic a 20 year old design layout … recognizing the ergonomic and functionality.

The aspect of ‘cutting corners’ in quality, manufacture or material are something that isn’t apparent at the level of information available at this juncture. (It would have been nicer if Rodger had provided a thicker gelcoat or other characteristics but they chose to do what they did… a product that we throughly enjoy by the way.) Today, wherever one would want to possibly produce a “Mac-a-like” one would probably utilize current low volume production technologies, vacuum resin infusion, 3D semi robotic trimming and spraying. Farm out component manufacture to spec, competitive bidding, just-in-time production, kan-ban, SPC simplified design to target First Time Yield of 1 and a host of other techniques that are common business practices the world over. 3D printing from laser scan of actual hand models to scale up production molds etc are becoming the norm. One doesn’t have to have the equipment or the programming skills… those are best done by boutique niche companies nowadays no mater where you are. Hison has at least some manufacturing and business experience so it’s not inconceivable or inconsistent that they could very well be capable of making a good product. They might just as well make a better quality product …

A basic rule in completion, especially today, is to fully recognize that all your competitors are just as capable, creative, observant, talented, honest, competent and motivated as you are… maybe more so

But given that the Hison information is now somewhat dated and nothing new has been published or offered for sale recently it may unfortunately become one of those ventures that had promise that didn’t make it into actual production.

Best Regards
Over Easy

OverEasy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 16, 2023 2:29 pmRodger seems to have struck a balance for himself and his company that fulfilled him up to the point it didn’t anymore.
He made a choice to just end it and leave things on a high note as it were without further obligations.
Giving the tools and molds to his kids was possibly a gesture to them if they wanted to pursue it ….on their own.
Moving it cross country to Florida wasn’t a move that was in the best interests of a manufacturing company given the physical, business and talent climates inherent of Florida. It’s a hard place on many levels to set up and actually make things… especially compared to Southern California… but Rodger could see the writing on the walls and recognized that for him it was time to pivot…

Roger's reason for discontinuing his business in California was not capricious, nor was it because about striking any sort of balance. It wasn't because it 'was time to pivot', and despite interviews at the time, it wasn't really about retirement, either. Instead, there was a very good reason to stop...

Roger ended production in California in April, 2013 primarily because of clean air standards related to VOCs, which had become so strict that the cost and aggro to comply would have been prohibitive, if indeed it would have even been possible, given the materials, methods and physical plant available at the time. They simply could not continue to manufacture a glassfiber product in California, especially given a 3-story retirement home had just been constructed directly behind the MacGregor plant and the residents were already complaining about the 'smell' of the fiberglass manufacturing... and the thought of lawsuits wasn't terribly appealing. (It should be noted that several other 'glass boat companies also ceased manufacturing in California around that time.)

In May, 2013 Roger transferred the business to his daughter, Laura MacGregor Sharp and her husband Paul, with the decision made to move it to a 'friendlier' state in terms of environmental law, and one that would also have an inexpensive source of laborers. As such, Florida made a good choice (good business climate and lots of hard-working immigrants), and thus Stuart, Florida became the new home of Tattoo Yachts. They moved the molds and the inventory to Florida and began to manufacture the Tattoo 26, and also began making plans to manufacture a smaller 22-foot Tattoo. They continued doing this until sometime in early 2015, when the molds for the Tattoo 26 became no longer viable. Why they chose to stop manufacturing at that point is a mystery - I've never had a clear answer from Laura.

However, in my communications with her she did give me, and thereby this forum, the official authorization to use the Tattoo and MacGregor logos and names to identify the forum, making it the only officially factory authorized MacGregor/Tattoo forum.

Hi Kmclemore!

Thank you for getting the actual reason out!
It is very appreciated!

Knowledge sets us free

Best Regards
Over Easy