Rub Rail restore or replace?

[kenfyoozed]

I have bought a section of the Tessilmare radial 40 track to test some ideas with.



Its made from Duralene, nit sure what that is... Its supposed to use N8 screws every 6". But I don't think N8 screws would be strong enough for the deck hull joint let along screws at all. I think I will stick to machine screws but go with a flat head style and counter sink them into the Duralene rail.

[Jimmyt]

I have bought a section of the Tessilmare radial 40 track to test some ideas with.

Its made from Duralene, nit sure what that is... Its supposed to use N8 screws every 6". But I don't think N8 screws would be strong enough for the deck hull joint let along screws at all. I think I will stick to machine screws but go with a flat head style and counter sink them into the Duralene rail.

I like the look of that. Also, looks like there is enough meat in the rail to countersink a machine screw. That should come out nice.

[Wyb2]

I have bought a section of the Tessilmare radial 40 track to test some ideas with.



Its made from Duralene, nit sure what that is... Its supposed to use N8 screws every 6". But I don't think N8 screws would be strong enough for the deck hull joint let along screws at all. I think I will stick to machine screws but go with a flat head style and counter sink them into the Duralene rail.

The image looks like an aluminum base with a PVC/vinyl cap extrusion (google search suggests Durelene is just a trade name of some PVC material). Are you attaching the aluminum like the original, with the deck-hull hardware? If so, my guess (hope) is they designed is enough gap between the base and cap to accommodate screw heads, so hopefully you won’t have to countersink.

Like you, I would refuse to use wood-screw style screws. But #8 machine screws and nuts on 6” centers might not be out of line. What’s on there now? On my 25 they are either #8’s or #10’s on either 6” or 8” centers, I’d have to check. A single #8 SS machine screw should have a breaking strength north of 1000 lbs.

[kenfyoozed]

Right now there us 1/4" pan head machine screws every 6-8". The track is made from the duralene so it seems it must be a rigid vinyl. Ill do some testing with the piece I bought. I hope the it will not collapse on itself when it is through bolted.

[kenfyoozed]

i ordered a section of rub rail insert to test. It came in today and it does look like it will fit. I will get pics of it tomorrow when I install the the entire 1" section. I ordered from eBay but this is the size dimensions.




I don't think this route will work for me as I have a couple of sections of the aluminum rub rail that are damaged and the only way to repair them would be to sand down the nicks and fill the divots with a brazing alloy and then resculpt the profile. New aluminum sections would cost more than the entire Tessilmare Radial 40 system, IF I could even find them.

[kenfyoozed]

A though occurred to me while I couldn't sleep last night.... Is the Aluminum Rub Rail used as a structural stiffener or is it there to act as a " bumper" and cover for the hull joint?

[kenfyoozed]

So here is the new sample rub rail insert installed. Used a bit of heat from the heat gun and it went in pretty easy. It looks like it fits well.

[OverEasy]

Hi Kenfyoozed!

Looks like you have been making great progress on your rub rail.
It appears to be quite different than ion the Mac26X!
The aluminum base and track insert system is interesting.
The Mac26X utilizes an all rubber c section that slips over the joining flange as you a probably aware of.
Ours was a couple of decades old and had suffered a few gashes and abuse.
While we opted to have a local boat yard do the replacement rub rail installation (that was mainly a matter of timing & convenience.)

The aluminum capture mount looks interesting as it would also help distribute any piling or dock impacts regather than transmit them directly to the mating flanges.

Would love to see the finished product of your efforts!

Best Regards
Over Easy
fudt

[Jimmyt]

A though occurred to me while I couldn't sleep last night.... Is the Aluminum Rub Rail used as a structural stiffener or is it there to act as a " bumper" and cover for the hull joint?

My guess is, it was something Roger got a bulk deal on. It is more robust than a rubber strip, but I doubt he'd use it as a structural element. As OverEasy points out, it will help spread out a point load.

That new insert looks perfect.

[kenfyoozed]

I was able to get one section of the stock rub rail off. I cut about 1/2' off the interior liner lip where it meets the hull liner to give better access to the nuts on the back side of the rail. I cobbled some items together and used a battery impact to zip off all the bolts. They all came out easy. Then there were a few screws at the bow. Of course there was all kind of dirt and grime under the rail. Tossed on a scotch bite pad on the die grinder and made short work to get it all clean. Then hit the edge with 120 and 220 to finish it up nicely.

The big surprise is that my deck and hull were never bonded! Only bolted together. There is no sealant between the two, only a foam strip and a bead of clear silicone on the outside joint.

So now I have to come up with a plan to bond the two. Of course the first thought goes back to a debate between the 5200/4200, but since this was NEVER bonded I was thinking of using Total Boats Thixo Flex Thickekend Flexible epoxy adhesive. My procedure would be as follows:

1. Spread apart the joint and fill with Thixo flex
2. Bolt the two halves back together and allow epoxy to set.
3. Remove bolts and ill holes with thixo flex . this would've a "plug weld" adhesion to help hold as well as the actual joint itself.
4. The outside joint where the top overlaps, seal with 4000uv
5. Then bed the new rails from Tessilmare with DOW 795 since its a structural adhesive as well.

Doing all of this would have to be stringer than what was there originally. What are your thoughts and suggestions?

[OverEasy]

Hi Kenfyoozed!

The mating of your upper deck shell to the hull is interesting to say the least!
You’ve been doing great!

I’d personally be a bit hesitant to use a bonding epoxy though, even if it allows some limited flexibility.
Getting the joint surfaces clean enough for a sealant like 5200 is hard enough, but getting it clean and sufficiently abraded for the Thixoflex Epoxy to bond in all the way around on bothe of the surfaces is a another whole level of effort!
Never mind the cost!!!
There is also the limited time window you have to work within before it sets up!
Unless you actually get it to bond to both surfaces of the joint there doesn’t appear to be a whole lot of benefit going down that path.
Note also that unless the surfaces are abraded and very clean the epoxy will pop free from one or both surfaces during the normal dynamic flexing our boats experience.

The prep for the 5200 is basically an alcohol wipe down to clear all the skunged crud out of the joint to above the horizontal bolt holes.
Generously squeeze in the 5200 so it migrates above & below all the bolt holes.
Insert the bolts, thread the nuts and tighten everything up before the 5200 set up which is a couple hours.
Clean up is also a whole lot easier too!

There is also the valid option of using the grey poly seal putty tape.
Relatively easy to install, remove, modify and not terribly expensive.
Comes in a variety of widths on rolls and lasts a very remarkably long time while remaining flexible.
Can be RE compressed if need be too without concern.

Then there is the original design intent engineered in.
The aspect of no permanent bond was intentional I would hazard to guess.
Not only for the ease of assembly but also to allow flexibility in use and seasonal thermal variations ( hot bright tropical sun lit days through dark double digit negative number winter nights.
It’s not necessarily a juncture you might want to be excessively rigid unless you can ensure a very strong clean bond.

While most of us wouldn’t think of lifting off our top deck shell on a regular basis it could prove to be advantageous to do so if/when the need arises to conduct extensive repairs or modification should the need arise at some future time.

Just some perspective thoughts….
Your boat, your rules!

Best Regards
Over Easy
fudt

[kenfyoozed]

I got the sample section of the Tessilmare Radial 40 base rail in and able to mock up but ran into some issues. I had planned to use the 1/4" machine screws to pull the deck and hull back together after sealing the joint. Then I would drill holes in the back of the rail so the rail could lay flat over the heads of machine screws. There is not enough material to "countersink" for the heads. And the rail does not center over the old machine screw holes. So here is my new plan....
1. Seal the joint with 4200 and used machine screw to hold the joint tight while the 4200 sets.
2. Once cured I will remove the machine screws and fill the holes. The 4200 should have enough bond to hold the joint without fasteners.
3. Install the rail base using flat head #8 machine screws and through bolt. Instead of every 6-8" like the factory I will put these every 3".

I would be relying more on the adhesive bond than the original mechanical bond. Due to this should I use something stronger like 5200 vs 4200?

[OverEasy]

Hi Kenfyoozed!

I’d hesitate to use fewer mechanical fasteners than the original design incorporated.

Your dealing with a stressed interface between the top deck and the hull sections subjected to multiple deflections during normal use with a high propensity to incur abusive stresses during potential non-standard excessive operational conditions while also having a long operational longevity well into the future. All adhesives are very subject to bonding surface conditions and aging related decline in capabilities over time. All of which begs you to keep within the original fastener design parameters.

The juncture is also relevantly subject to potential future servicing as well.

There are other fasteners available that can help get you back to where you want to be,
Look up places like Grainger, McCaully, Fastnal and other fastener hardware suppliers who are bound to have want will help get you back together again.

“Your Boat / Your Rules” but remember there is every possibility that there are going to be future owners of your vessel with family and friends who will very likely not know or understand what was deviated from the original design given the hidden nature of this rework/modification.

Best Regards
Over Easy
fudt

[kenfyoozed]

I wouldn't not be using fewer fasteners. I would actually be using more. The factory spacing is every 6-8" with a 1/4" machine screw. I would be using a #8 machine screw every 3". I would be using smaller diameter mechanical fasteners more often. Both have the same tensile strength per McMaster Carr website. I have searched for a potential screw to work under the rub rail but the only thing that would work well would be a flat head which has the potential to pull through the deck. I'll get some pics of the rail with the head profiles and show how big they are.

[OverEasy]

Hi Kenfyoozed!

Sorry, I mis read. My bad.
Sorta read it backwards and the adhesive threw me.

Thank you for pointing out my error.

Best Regards
Over Easy
fudt