MacGregorSailors.com

Hi All!

Glad (and a bit humbled) you found found our fuel system interesting!

Might I suggest that, even if you want to have removable fuel tanks to suit you circumstances, we would highly recommend setting up a fuel selector valve to change over from one tank to the other without having to disconnect/re-connect while out on the water. We’ve found it SO MUCH BETTER / SAFER / FASTER / EASIER than how we started out with Over Easy.

Having the boat side fuel filter/separator is much easier to check and drain than any engine mounted filter/separator and is something we’d highly recommend. Especially if you can’t get ethanol free fuel.
The prices for a fuel selector vary from supplier as you can see below:




These are three way selector valves, all are fuel rated, all are brass and all look the same.
Prices range from $47 down to $25
I’ve no doubt with a little more hunting one could probably find it for even less.
I recall we paid around $30 something back several years ago.

Again, Thank you!

Best Regards
Over Easy

Love all the feedback and ideas.

Got my Amazon 3-way valve but as I mostly expected it's not the quality that I want. Plus, it's barbs are just slightly larger diameter than the Moeller barbs on the "real" fuel fittings, and I don't want to mess around with heat or force.

Gonna change tacks, I think. Since the fuel separator has two 1/4 inlets, I'll put two inline shutoff valves 1/4 mpt to 3/8 barb and use the separator as the wye function. I found two marine rated ss/al fuel shutoff valves from a marine supplier at $23 each and I think I'm going to buy them.

This would give the possibility of supplying fuel from both tanks, which could be a pro or a con depending on the circumstances.

I could also put the inline shutoff valves at the tank outlets, with the quick connects at the filter. Not sure which side of the fuel lines I want the quick disconnects to be at.

Hi StarScream!

Decisions … decisions…
All good! As in a lot of things there isn’t just one answer!

One technique I’ve relied professionally and personally on has been to make in-situ dry runs of various options after I’ve written/sketched them out. (I generally bring extra paper, a pencil and an eraser too! )
The writing/sketching allows for each idea to be thought out in some detail.
The dry runs allows for the in-situ aspects to have their say as well!
This allows me to try out physically and mentally which can reinforce & poke holes in concepts often leading to a better “combined” idea.
It takes into account things like physical access, personal dexterity, lighting, view lines (for both operator and ancillary personnel, conflicts with other equipment use/access/service and then not to forget egress aspects.

Before changing over to our twin 12 gallon tank system I had several choice (negative ) thoughts about the placement of QDs directly on the top of the fuel tanks…especially so because of the tank cubbies under the bench seats of our Mac26X. Top mounting makes perfectly good sense when tanks are placed so there is unrestricted top access like in a skiff or a drop-in.

But with our Mac26X, The inane awkwardness of attempting to bend down (losing sight of wherever your headed or what’s going on around you) to reach under the bench on one side in the blind to remove the QD on that side then having to swap sides and repeat the same process again in the blind…phppt! Now add in a bit of wave/wind/weather/obstacle/obstruction/traffic & sputtering engine and that’s a recipe for a comic strip study in desperation against the fates! (Ya gotta keep laughing! )

At one point in our process we contemplated adding a short 1 foot section or so of hose to each tank’s supply line to allow getting the QDs out from under the bench seat to at least have it visible…. That would have solved one problem but not the extended time distraction and awkwardness… ever notice one can have a difficult time disconnecting/aligning/connecting QDs with only one hand? A-longer stub hose might have helped some but then it wandered around getting under foot and one still would have needed two hands and still would be dealing with the distraction.

That exercise (before buying hardware or rigging things up) help making the decision to go the direction we chose to go.
Larger tanks, top access hatches through the bench seat, sight gauges and fill ports on the tanks visible/accessible from the access hatch.
No QDs but rather went with hard direct connections of the fuel lines to each of the tanks.
A fixed location for the primer bulb and fuel selector within arms reach behind the stern seat… etc… fuel filter/separator… FPV…

Yes, we chose to go on a bit of an involved approach but it has made it SO MUCH easier to use with virtually no distraction or aggravation.
Feel like checking a tank’s fuel level? Pop the bench hatch and take a quick look-see without losing situational awareness and use only one hand.
Feel like changing fuel tanks (for whatever reason…balance, fuel level, just because) then reach over turn the selector valve without ever looking away from what’s going on and use only one hand.
The boat side fuel filter has a large enough viewable water collection bowl capacity to handle any reasonably expected water contamination and is really easy/accessible to drain when needed vs. opening up the engine cowl.
The FPV eliminated the potential for a thermally pressurized fuel system (bigger problem on carburetor engines than fuel injected ones) if one closes the tank vent….

We worked toward what worked for our situation and anticipated needs.
It’s easy to use and easy to communicate.
We’re really enjoy our current fuel system!
It works for us.

Best Regards
Over Easy

Hi StarScream!

Here’s a copy of our drawn out fuel system schematic:



Sorry I plum fergot ta take a picture of da setup on da boat… my bad.

I’ll try ya take one this weekend an post it.

Best Regards
Over Easy

OverEasy wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 11:49 am Hi StarScream!

Here’s a copy of our drawn out fuel system schematic:

Ah, that makes sense.

I ended up ordering two Moeller shutoff valves from a random online fuel parts supplier. They're not easy to find, and aren't cheap.

My plan is to have the shutoff valves directly at the outlet of each tank, routed to the two inlets of the fuel filter with quick-disconnects at the fuel filter. One fuel filter outlet will be plugged, the other will have a quick-connect routed to the primer bulb and then to the motor. With the two shutoff valves, I'll have the option to use both tanks although I don't foresee that being a thing. I wonder if siphon-balancing the two tanks through the fuel filter will be possible.

In my garage I'll have another fuel bulb with the mating quick connect to the tank lines, which will be used to siphon-drain fuel at the end of the season. The last little bit of fuel that doesn't siphon out will be sucked out with a hand pump.

We definitely have a problem with gas here in Canada: there is no more non-ethanol fuel available anywhere. The premium gas at my local Shell station used to be ethanol free but new legislation has messed that up entirely. As of the beginning of this year, all fuel in my province is at least 10% ethanol and will increase to 15% in 2030. Too bad for any marine consumers.

Hi StarScream!

Sounds like a set-up that works for your needs!
That’s the benefit of having diversity… different approaches work for different applications and needs… there is no one right answer for everyone…

As promised I finally got around to remembering to take a couple of better photos of our fuel selector/FPV/filter/separator/bulb panel set-up on the boat. I should have done it earlier an’ jus’ ever got-a-round-tuit





This is now our third season with this set-up and it’s been working out great for us…everything easily falls to hand in use, is easily checked and easily serviced.

As you can see the selector is where one can see it from just about anywhere in the cockpit and reach it from the helm seat.
The primer bulb is also readily at hand form the helm seat by just reaching over the seat back.
The filter water separator visual bowl is large enough to contain any water collected without needing to be addressed on an immediate crisis basis and is easily checked/serviced(drained) at the start or end of any trips when we raise/lower the engine. (As we try to exclusively use ethanol-free marine fuel we haven’t found any water accumulation at all. Only early on when we couldn’t get anything but regular automotive fuel did we find any errant water droplets… but they were easy to see and drain into a cup for proper disposal.)

We’re happy with our arrangement as I’m sure you will be with yours!

Best Regards,
Over Easy

Getting the boat read for the season, I drained the bowl of my filter/separator and found a teaspoon or so of water. I use ethanol-free premium gas although there were times when I couldn't get it. It was nice to see the device works and is easy to purge.

BTW....before installing a Raycor filter/separator, try to remove the filter. Mine was on there so tight from the factory I felt I was going to break it trying to unscrew it. I then reinstalled it less tight but still secure.

Russ wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 7:32 pm Getting the boat read for the season, I drained the bowl of my filter/separator and found a teaspoon or so of water. I use ethanol-free premium gas although there were times when I couldn't get it. It was nice to see the device works and is easy to purge.

BTW....before installing a Raycor filter/separator, try to remove the filter. Mine was on there so tight from the factory I felt I was going to break it trying to unscrew it. I then reinstalled it less tight but still secure.

I saw a youtube video where the poster suggested greasing the filter gasket with a touch of motor oil, as you would an oil filter in a car, to allow easier removal after a year of being exposed to the elements. The Sierra filter assembly I purchased came in separate pieces so I'll avoid that problem, but thanks for the heads-up!

Just got my Moeller valves in the mail. They look to be high quality, much better than the amazon $#!T.

Here's my mockup. Each valve leads to a tank with a quick-connect fitting. The quick-connect leads to the primer bulb and the motor. I'm wondering about the pros and cons of adding 90-degree elbows to three inlets and outlets to make it more compact and reduce strain. More joints to leak though, hmmm. https://www.grainger.ca/en/product/p/FA ... lsrc=aw.ds

Hi StarScream!

The 90 degree fittings look like they could work.
Can’t tell scale from pictures…. Just make sure you can get to the valves easily without getting tangled up or pinched.
Are you gonna hard mount the filter body?
Consider the leverage arm of the fittings and hoses…when bouncing about on the waves things get bumped about in unexpected ways.

Best Regards
Over Easy

C Buchs wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2024 9:23 am I hate my quick disconnects also. The ones I have leak a little fuel when you remove them, too. They are also really hard to get on and hard to tell if you have them all the way on. It sucks to have the engine quit, struggle with swapping, pump the bulb, crank the engine, and not have it start. Then check everything to find that the quick connect isn't all the way on. So far we have been drifting in places where we haven't hit anything, but if this happens while we're docking, we're screwed. My other fear is that this happens when I'm not available. I know the struggle and my wife is starting to figure it out, but she always gives me the "this needs to be fixed" look.

This https://www.westmarine.com/west-marine- ... cts__en_US 1/4 inch valve from West Marine is only $37, but I think my fuel lines are 3/8 inch. This https://www.westmarine.com/moeller-3-8i ... cts__en_US 3/8 inch valve is $57. See how easy it is to start putting together another parts list for another boat project!

Jeff

We went out on Saturday and my wife was at the helm while I was up on deck installing the boom/mainsail. The motor died when one of our 6-gallon tanks was empty. She struggled with getting the fitting off. So I came down to help. It still took us several tries to get it going. It seemed like we were drifting for 5 minutes. It was probably a minute. Either way, it was way too long. This project is now on the top of my list.

We have these https://a.co/d/3SbBqYu Attwood 8838US6 connectors. I'll put in a valve so that I don't have to switch connections when one tank is empty, but I'm also going to change these connectors. We remove our tanks to fill them and these connectors have to go!

Jeff

C Buchs wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 12:50 pm
We went out on Saturday and my wife was at the helm while I was up on deck installing the boom/mainsail. The motor died when one of our 6-gallon tanks was empty. She struggled with getting the fitting off. So I came down to help. It still took us several tries to get it going. It seemed like we were drifting for 5 minutes. It was probably a minute. Either way, it was way too long. This project is now on the top of my list.

We have these https://a.co/d/3SbBqYu Attwood 8838US6 connectors. I'll put in a valve so that I don't have to switch connections when one tank is empty, but I'm also going to change these connectors. We remove our tanks to fill them and these connectors have to go!

Jeff

Yup, been there. I absolutely hate changing the tanks on the fly.

If my setup works, it's a relatively inexpensive way to add filtration, water separation, and valve selection for the tanks. And to help drain the tanks in the winter.

Jeff, consider adding deck hatches over your tanks, so that you don't have to remove them to refill. I added small 6" round hatches, but OverEasy added big square ones (probably a better way to go, but I was hesitant to cut into the benches). It's an easy, quick add with a drill and jigsaw, and fuelling is waaaay easier.

Hi All!

The bigger hatches are great!
Plenty of room and they are strong too!
I regularly stomp all over them which is a bit abusing given my large frame (and general lack of dexterity ).
Plenty of strength.
Glad we went this route as refueling and level checking are a breeze.

Early in our own planning it was considered using two tanks per side (four 5 gallon tanks total) if we were to manually load/unload the tanks for filling while still giving us 20 gallons+ of fuel. (Each full tank would weigh about 30 lbs …. Still a bit to lug around but a lot less than the 72 lbs of a single 12 gallon tank!).
So with that plan option we would have still used self sealing QDs on each tank, then the pairs on each side “Y” ganged to a 3-way fuel valve. The out put of each side would be “Y” ganged to a final 3-way fuel valve before feeding into the filer/separator, FPV and primer bulb which would then connect to the engine. Again, our objective was to avoid having to swap tanks while out on the water.
Part of the challenge was where to mount the fuel valves for each side that would be visible, easily accessed, consistently positioned and yet still not in the way… not easily done
Going through the operational logistics it showed that this route was going to be more difficult than beneficial for us.
We did a test run through several different gas stations and found that the hoses were actually long enough to reach the tank fill ports in the cockpit. So on-land refueling was workable. The bigger challenge would be refueling at a dock manually on our own if that became necessary. Our option for that was to utilize a wheeled transfer tank like one can get from a farm supply outlet that we could bring down to the dock.
Going through the Pros and Cons we decided upon the two 12 gallon tanks and the single “Y” 3-way fuel selector… fewer parts, easier to fabricate, easier to use for us. (If we ever need to manually lug fuel down the dock to refuel we can still get a wheeled transfer tank.. so far that hasn’t been necessary )

Just our 2 cents.

Best Regards,
Over Easy

Starscream wrote: ↑Tue May 14, 2024 4:23 pm
Jeff, consider adding deck hatches over your tanks, so that you don't have to remove them to refill. I added small 6" round hatches, but OverEasy added big square ones (probably a better way to go, but I was hesitant to cut into the benches). It's an easy, quick add with a drill and jigsaw, and fuelling is waaaay easier.

I'll add fuel locker top hatches to the list. @OverEasy: Can you let us know what size you used and comment about if you would change it?

I'm currently putting thought into where I would like to mount my fuel valve. On my aft starboard corner, I already have a radar pole and washdown pump hose storage. My ballast valve is leaking a little and I was thinking of adding this https://a.co/d/heDmnRd cable-operated replacement. So I'd like to find room for both.

Here's the best picture I could find of my "current" setup. This is from before we changed the outboard to an Etec 90. The boat also looks dirty because of all the ash that was covering it from the Eagle Creek fire in 2017.



Jeff

Hi C Buchs!

Sorry about your ash experience!
That must have been a real mess to contend with for sure!

We mounted ours to the starboard side as our swim ladder was already mounted to the port side and we wanted to keep that slot as clutter free as possible.

I may be mistaken but it looks like there might be some space on our aft side wall behind the helm seat…


The hatch we used is…

And is should be available from several suppliers like Wholesale Marine, West Marine and others.
These have worked out really well for us. Strong, durable and easy to use…and the provide great clearance to access the fill ports, the tanks level sight gauge and the tanks outfeed port for either side. Given the opportunity to do again we would readily go back with the same size for our dual 12 gallon tank arrangement which pretty much centered in the fuel cubbies. That worked for us. A different size set of fuel tanks or other cubby use arrangements might/could need a slightly different placement.

Regarding other fuel cubby use arrangements… I’ve seen where some individuals went with smaller size fuel tanks like 5, 6 or 9 gallon types which allowed them to use the remainder space for storage and/or equipment. (When we first adopted Over Easy she came with dual 9 gallon tanks.) A PO appears to have attempted to use the excess space to some degree. (We found an old unused archeological remnants of a fuel filter housing a PO had mounted on the back wall of the starboard cubby….how this side of hades they ever positioned themselves to ever change it, much less view it, is well beyond me!!! ….which explains why it appeared to never have been used… the mud dauber wasps had made some use of it though… ugh!).

The cable operated ballast fill/drain valve sound interesting …. although I wonder what the lever force might be based upon how stiff our existing valve is (even after being freshly lubricated and greased)? The cable arrangement would definitely be nicer than my general attempts to take a header off the stern when trying to open the valve! (Always willing to provide some entertainment for the local crowds! )
I’d be tempted to mount the lever vertically as a visual indicator as to the valve open/closed position to provide a more intuitive reference.
But that’s just me… your perspectives/needs are uniquely yours. There is no only one answer here… it’s what you like .

Same goes for how we chose to use a vertical layout our fuel system board.
It’s worked well for us.
It could have been done as a square or more horizontal layout just as well.

We used aluminum 1/4 dia threaded Rivnuts to make the connection to the hull.
These worked well for us. One can buy them from any good hardware store but I recently came across a really nice Rivnut kit at Harbor Freight that comes with a variety of sizes along with a nice setting tool.







(Personally I have previously utilized a long grade 8 bolt and nut arrangement to set Rivnuts. The process is fairly simple… drill hole to tightly fit the outer barrel of the Rivnut… thread the nut onto the bolt up towards the bolt head after lubricating the bolt threads with grease… thread on the Rivnut to the free end of the bolt….. insert the Rivnut into the hole pushing the flange to the mount surface… hold the bolt head in place (still) with one wrench/socket while tightening the nut back toward the Rivnut flange with another wrench… this will expand and collapse the Rivnut to lock it in position. NOTE: It’s always a good idea to practice this at least once on an open to view scrap setup to understand how it works and feels doing it before using it on an actual project. But that’s just me.)

Hope this helps!

Best Regards,
Over Easy