Should one carry a gun when sailing?

[mike]

Moore did a good documentary with this Columbine Bowling thing on HBO. Showing grade schoolers firing AR-15s at the range. Good grief.

What exactly do you feel is so bad about that? Since you say they were at a range, I'm assuming they were there with parents or were otherwise being supervised. Is it the "AR-15" part you have a problem with? If so, I should point out that this firearm, despite what Sen. Schumer says, does not fire any faster than any other semi-auto, and is FAR LESS powerful than common hunting rifles. These are guns that just have a military-like appearance, so they have been singled out by the anti-gun crowd for special treatment. Just FYI (sorry, didn't mean to get off on a rant).

BTW, if you're a fan of Michael Moore's "documentary," take a look at this site... http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html

--Mike

[Tom Root]

We all have differing views on weapons, but that issue should never polarize us on this board, it is too valuable IMHO, as a true source of information on the important things in life, like sailing! I have my own set of beliefs, standards,morals and background. We have members from all over the globe, they couldn't begin to understand our issues with weapons, as their governments flat out don't allow it. My opinion there, is that my Government will have to pry my cold dead fingers from my gun, others may disagree, I support your view as it is your right. My only hope is that we can respect each others view, and leave it at that!

Tom Root
2002 26
Great White
San Diego

[Nelson G. Thomas]

Howdy Sloop Jhon B,

You made the observation:

"Im armed. However, I know if and when such circumstances present themselves that I ever have to pull that piece, chances are less that 50 50 we will live to see the next day."

I beg to differ. The fact is that the vast majority of the time a firearm is used in self defense no shot is fire. Most of the time simply brandising a firearm is all it takes to end the confrontation. The bad guys are stupid but for the most part they are not that stupid. In the USA more bad guys are shot by citizens every year than by cops but that is only the tip of the iceberg. Estimates range up to 2 million incidents a year in the US where firearms are used in self defense. Obviously a shot is seldom fired. If you have come to the gravest extreme of circumstances that a firearm is needed for defense you chances are pretty good you will see the sun come up again if you are armed.

As to carrying a gun on our 26X I usually do so for sporting purposes. We sail the Columbia River, often in rather remote areas and protection enters the mind but I am much more likely to use my pellet pistol for plinnking than to get my .357 out for plinking. Shooting from the boat is not legal in any case (illegal to shoot over water in Washingtion State) so I would have to go ashore to shoot (and occasionally do).

When sailing in the San Juans I don't have a gun on board because it is easy to stray into international waters. When sailing further down river, I often end up on the Oregon side of the boarder where my CCW permit is not valid so we do not carry down there. It always depends on the circumstances. If you have kids aboard precautions are necesary including leaving the gun at home if that is your decision. Just be sure to be safe no matter what.

When I was a kid we did some stupid stuff too but we survived. With upwards of 70 to 100 million gun owners in the US I would say there is very little problem with kids and guns. (and kids brought up in the "gun culture" are way under represented in having dealings with the police )Don't believe everyting you read in the paper about the problem of kids and guns. Those numbers are cooked something awful. Where I live in Washington State, most homes have guns and we never have problems around here.

Enough. This is supposed to be about sailing so on that note, I will only say it is advisable to carry only stainless steel guns in your boat

Regards,
Nelson Thomas

[Max]

Hiya Rolf,

In answer to your question...'cos I've never had a gun, doesn't affect me. However our legal gun clubs that shoot targets have suffered. It's a typical knee jerk reaction from our government that they ban everything if something major kicks off ie 'Dunblane shooting' (no amount of gun laws would have prevented that ********.
Seems to be more and more youths in cities getting hold of them - God knows how. I can see a day when our police (God forbid) will be armed. There again, we've always got the SAS to call on! Yes there is an increase in crime here, because our liberal idiots in government are too lenient. Wish we had your strle boot camps over here.
Sorry this isn't a boat issue, but interesting.
Max

[Mark Prouty]

Hee, Hee, You'd be surprised how many do! I am not at all paranoid about Pirates anywhere in the states. But, there are places I've been that I wished I had a firearm. I have been chased numerous times in the Phillipines when diving off of Banca boats (dugout outrigger power home builds) and fortunately never was face to face with these scoundrels! We outran 'em!!!!!

Tom,
I was surprised. I had no idea so many Mac owners carried a gun! If there are any pirates out there take note!!

By the way. I really like your colorful writings from the naming of your boat to your citation at Crystal River, Florida. Oh, not to mention outrunning those scoundrels!

[Max]

Rolf,
Wow!
Think I'll stick to sailing out of Plymouth (Britain)!! - the only thing to worry about there is idiots in big sports cruisers...powering past
Regards
Max

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

No matter how restrictive the gun laws get it appears that the bad guys never have a problem getting the guns and I can pull mine a lot faster than the police can get to me to help me should I neet help. The police are better equipt to solve my murder than to prevent it.

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

BTW I neglected to mention that I don't own a gun and probably won't. I'm just inteligent enough to be able to see that gun laws will never protect me or anyone else from gun violence so there must be some other reason for passing them them.

[Tony D-26X_SusieQ]

BTW I neglected to mention that I don't own a gun and probably won't. I'm just inteligent enough to be able to see that gun laws will never protect me or anyone else from gun violence so there must be some other reason for passing them them.

[mike]

Hospital Em-room reports claim that for every 1 legal self-defense use of a firearm there are 42 non justifiable use of firearms.

Don't forget the countless times that a potential crime is thwarted when a citizen brandishes a firearm without firing a shot.

I grew uo in the inner city and A few of my friend have been shot or shot somenoe else, usually a stupid argument , woman or drugs. I cant remember anyone shoting a mugger.

I have not yet had to fire a gun protecting myself or someone else, and hope to God I will never have to. However, my father in law, who owns a small lawn equipment business in a not-so-great part of town in Memphis, has. A few years ago, a pair of thugs intent on robbing him waltzed into his store and began beating him mercilessly with a tire iron. Being somewhat old, he didn't stand a chance against these predators... until he pulled out a pistol and began firing. One died, the other fled the scene. He was emotionally traumatized from the incident, despite an outpouring of support from the community, but at least my kids still have their grandfather.

And, as if that's not enough, just several months ago a similar thing happened to him... a woman came into the store and wanted a chainsaw. He was walking to the back room to retrieve it for her, and noticed she was following him. He slid his hand in his pocket and got a firm grip on his pistol, just in case. Sure enough, she produced a gun, and demanded money and/or merchandise. Her eyes grew as wide as saucers when he spun around and began firing at her. He missed, and the female thug fled.

I keep my gun locked up and away from my kids and wife.

Any particular reason why you don't trust your wife to have access to a firearm?

Everyone has thier constitutional rights, Butt,,DO I HAVE A RIGHT TO BE PROTECTED FROM ALL THOSE JERKS WITH GUNS???) sorry if Ioffened anyone.

There's a funny saying... "Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my gun."

--Mike

[craiglaforce]

Well I guess I'll add my 2 cents since I've read all the interesting posts.
I definitely support responsible gun ownership. I grew up with guns and started target shooting when I was around 9 years old or thereabouts. I think it helped teach me responsibility.

As an adult, I still own a rifle and shotgun although I haven't fired them in years. But living out in the country with bears and such it is a little bit of comfort to know that I can stop one in its tracks if needed.

Also, I vividly remember watching the LA riots a number of years ago and how the police basically went the other way. There was video of Korean store owners standing on top of their stores with guns and defending their stores (maybe also their homes if they lived on the same premises).

I still remember a line that Carol O'Conner had as Archie Bunker back when all the airliners were being hi-jacked to Cuba. His quip was "give every responsible passenger that wants one, a loaded gun (I think he called it a "rod") as they get on the plane. Then lets see some idiot stand up and announce he is taking over the plane. Forty loaded pistols aimed at him might provide some discouragement. Especially if he only has a box cutter. Which is a case in point. You have absolute gun control on airplanes. So therefore 9/11 should not have happened right? Gee, they found another weapon, and they always will.

But I guess a lot of it depends on what culture you were brought up with.
Of course, if I had any possibility of kids in the house, the guns would be locked in a safe. But if you teach kids how to safely handle firearms, I think this is the safest solution. I agree some weapons tend to get a bad name because they look nasty. Gee, must be a really bad gun if it is black and has a military look to it.

To me, weapons are indeed a deterrant to criminals. I would not think a robber would be eager to enter a house if he knew the owner had a 12 gauge shotgun ready to roll. I think guns at least put people on an equal footing with armed criminals. The elderly or women can at least defend their homes on a more equal footing if they want to.

But I don't carry a gun in the boat. Just don't feel the need. If I was in a bad area though I might reconsider.

Home defense, civil defense, I think it is almost an obligation. Back during the cold war, even if the US was nuked and invaded, the well armed American population would not have been easy to defeat.

Granted there are some deaths caused by firearms. usually by criminals, but there are also accidental deaths from driving, flying, getting vaccinated, eating red meat, etc. And guns have in many cases protected the innocent and saved lives.

I think I'll keep my car, my steak and my peacemaker.

[Gerald Gordon]

I would suggest that you leave your weapon below. Of course, you could always shove it down the front of your bathing suit. I'm sure you'd make a statement. Just kidding.

[Max]

Nice one, TampaMac..
You're spot on.
My conclusion is if we nailed our crooks HARD, make prison a tough place instead of a hotel, bring back the cane/pump in schools, give out severe punishments AND BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY like some of your states....then maybe Britain would be on its way back to the more peaceful and respectful place it was post-war.
Went to New York a few years back and felt that everybody I met was a damn sight more respectful than people in say, London. I didn't really feel threatened either. Not even when I crossed Central Park to see the Dakota Buildings where Lennon (my hero!) was murdered.
Regards
Max

[Frank C]

... Will this non-sailing thread ever end?

Doesn't much matter, I stopped reading it, in favor of just a quick skim for philosophical tone - pretty monotoned, too.

[Frank C]

OK Franky Boy, hide your head in the sand.

Monotony continues ... Speaking of hiding, exactly who is that hiding behind guns and a "guest" pseudonym? Fearful at all? ... or ready to bluster and threaten?

I've only ever traveled to Canada, Mexico and Asia. However, I've never felt even potential need of a gun except in the depths of some USA cities. Since I don't plan to sail my boat in the depths of any city, since Mexico would jail me, and confiscate both gun and the boat, and since I've never felt the need in Canada ... guess I'll sail without a gun.

I suppose that's the extent of my contribution to the topic of sailing and guns. (Gun is stowed in my head .... in the sand).