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Stephen where did you attach the mini blocks & how many . Yes my 150 gen furling line fits fairly snug on my mac19 so I imagine with the 26mac bigger gen its really snug


Thx JS

Two blocks ...they clip onto stanchions....you can see one of them here sorry I forgot to rotate the picture...the other one goes up on the forward stanchion, then back to the cleat port side.

If the FF2 CDI furler had not been Dealer installed when I purchased the boat:

I find changing sails on the furler a real pain, and never on the water.

Stepping the mast with the cumbersome furler is many times more difficult than handling a forestay.

Hanking on a Jib, or Genoa and having the use of the real halyard to tension luff or change sails is worth the effort.

Purchasing Multiple FF2 CDI furlers to simplify sail changes is too much weight aloft, and a waste of sail shape with their static halyard tension, full sail or when partially furled, to say nothing of maintaining forestay tension with both pulling on the spar.

Having heard of Roller Furling Mainsails and owners who desire to purchase (More Weight Aloft) these supposedly beneficial Mainsail Mechanical Marvels, I have never known one to provide a sail with enough sail shape and control to benefit the cost of the Spars in this size craft, whether rolled into the mast, or the boom (Im with Frank on the Rolling Boom) and anyone can see the manufacturers CDI Mainsail Furler is nothing more than the FF2 Head Sail Furler. Dont expect to have any shape with this unit, and youll notice they do not show their unit on any yachts out in anything but light air. Can you imagine this unit out on the Frisco Bay? Plan on installing many new controls and hardware just to make the Mainsail Furler Operate, but nix the newest of large roach full batten sails. Very few Roller Furled Mainsails work with battens and they all are special sails, cut flat, when they age (and they will) the already poor shape will be degrading and even worse when reefed.

Terry is in harmony with his Mac. Both headsails can be hanked on and he has the full use of his halyard to tension the luff or change the sails out on the water. I would suggest the use of a Double Head stay with 2 headsail halyards, (one could be the spinnaker) and have both headsails hanked on to their respective head stays and stored as many great cruising boats in their bags on the foredeck. The Double head stay rigging compromises the clean air luff of the single stay and adds the weight of a second forestay wire, but for the best of sail shape while maintaining each sail available hanked and on deck (maybe used together downwind) I think this rig would be the best choice. You might even find a second messenger line run through the hanks to the head of the headsail to pull the headsail down on the deck after releasing the halyard from the cockpit.

The Luff Foil is of coarse a great profile for the headsail and is akin to racing. It will add about 2 of potential sail area and always profile with the wind like the spar on the new M model. The problem with headsail foils, such as the HeadFoil 2 model, is the sail is no longer attached at the luff when on deck. They have a prefeeder as most roller furlers other than the CDI FF2 and use the same #6 luff tape used on the CDI FF2 furling unit.

If time could be turned back, and I had the choice to order the FF2 furler, and Sails with the #6 luff tape, or order the standard hanked on sails and use the standard forestay wire, I would go with the hanked on sails because:

The "internal halyard" type of system goes over the existing forestay, but does not use the jib halyard. It has an internal halyard that slides down one groove of the system, while the luff of the sail slides up the second groove. The advantage of this style of system is typically lower cost, no head swivel - no potential halyard wrap problems, keeps halyard free for cruising spinnaker. The disadvantages are difficult to change halyard tension for sailshape control while sailing, compression load on extrusions can make furling difficult in high load situations, and it is difficult to change sails and the The cumbersome furler when stepping the spar plus its increased weight aloft burdens trailer Sailor.

Your sailing skills will improve, or if you already have them, youll appreciate those incremental performance benefits of sail changing and halyard tension on the luff of your headsail, and the Macs pointing will be improved to help with your sailing skills and performance demands.

Our 26X came with the working jib on the CDI FF2 furler and I have mixed feelings about the furler. It was wonderfully convenient and meant not having to go forward on the narrow bow or open the forward hatch in heavier seas. It allows depowering the foresail in addition to reefing the mainsail, getting even more sail reduction and maintaining the same balance as with both full. On the other hand, it made mast raising more difficult, but that's not an issue for those in a slip or mast-up storage, and doesn't bother some who trailer. We had a good system to overcome its weight by using the furling line to lift it off the deck and mast during mast raising.

Probably the worst thing about it is that the added complexity of switching sails on the foil usually means a "one-size-fits-all" selection of a single foresail for most owners. In our case, it was the working jib, which was about right in 11-16 knots, but underpowered compared to the huge 150 genoa in 10 knots or less. For others, it's the big genoa right for lower winds, but overpowered or poorly shaped when furled much earlier in higher winds. It's a compromise, yes, but one many, and probably most, Mac owners are willing to make.

After all, this IS a MacGregor, not a racing or sport boat. It's a water-borne Winnebago, for which we've already seriously compromised sailing performance for luxuries like standing headroom, easy trailering and launching, and motoring much faster than hull speed. Put in perspective, the compromise for roller furling is a small one.

The reason I went to 2 furlers is I converted my mac19 to a cutter rig and run both head sails together & as I sail mostly by myself & like the rough water I can get her going like the cats ass, I get a lot of inquires about my cutter rig conversion when I pull into port some where for the night & alot of the bigger boats comeup beside me to tell me how well balanced she looks & take pic,s of me running along at 25-30 deg. heel and the cutter rig runs realy nice down wind with both head sails . Everone is entitled to their own prefrence what works for you not necc. works for others , by the way I dont have any problem equaling the forestays whats yours

thx JS

John (Highlander) -- how does your rig affect the 's ability to point upwind?

I ask because some folks (particularily those with big 4 strokes hanging off the back) complain the boat doesn't point well, and many have moved additional weight forward to compensate. Seems your setup might be a good choice -- especially given where the extra weight resides. I bet it was quite a project though!

All you guys looking for a performance tweak stop reading here. For me the best reason for the furler was getting the Admiral on board for family sailing.

With the two little ones (then 4) sailing under furler alone meant no heeling and also the ability to quickly adjust or douse the sail without anyone having to go up top. This was really good. Early sailing seasons she really didnt like going up top to drop the main, but didnt want to helm either....a not unusual quandry Ive found.

I like reading the performance posts as they give me an idea of things to try when I am on a long trip, but I think Moe hit the proverbial nail on the head with the Winnebago concept for me.

Catigale having a tough time typing this morning after two days marathon painting the basement. Drycote (tm) is a great basement paint.

As I detailed in a previous post, you have to stretch the luff properly to get the right sail shape with a furler. I doubt there is much of a performance difference between hanked and furled headsail. In fact, it might be better with a furler due to the closed "slot" with the boltrope. Kind of like sail slugs in the main. You probably get slightly better performance without them. Racers don't use them, they feed the bolt rope into the mast. So how many folks are willing to give up the sail slugs for better performance? Kind of the same thing with the furler, sure, it is a bit more difficult to change sails, but with some practice and some tricks, its not so hard. Same with mast raising, as long as you use a couple tricks (ie, mast raising system and keep tension on furler line to keep drum off deck), its quite manageable.

Early sailing seasons she really didnt like going up top to drop the main, but didnt want to helm either....a not unusual quandry Ive found.

That gave me a chuckle...imagining my mate doing foredeck duty, I'd probably get to try out my lifesling though! Seriously, I struck a "sailing" deal with her a long time ago...she takes care of the kids, I take care of the boat...period. That means I totally single hand all the time, regardless whether it is anchor duty or sail manipulation, etc. The autopilot, slugs in the main, and headsail on the furler are quite important to a single hander. Seems like the poll pretty much shows that...less than 10% who don't want a furler and I'm part of the majority on this one. If you are into performance above convenience, you probably should have bought a different boat. Face it, the Mac is much more a cruising boat than a racing boat.

Those are Wonderful perspectives for new boaters with a little demand for more than motoring, floating with the current, or sitting at the dock.
The Winnie on water relationship is of coarse acceptable only for those new or inexperienced to sailing. The MacGregor for the past decades is a Motorsailor. Its a wonderful example of this type of craft capable of performing as a capable Sailing Craft as well as a Motorboat.

Most Sailors seek the most performance from rigging and appreciate the benefit of setting and trimming the right sail to better their crafts performance. They will rise to the best of their skills to avoid being passed out on the water. As we gain sailing experience, demanding a better trim on our sails and balancing our craft to perform in any breeze, well past Winnebago Mans self-reliance having forced him to set his Iron Genny. It may well be the sign of a true sailor who has gained the confidence, reading the water and conditions, while sailing his boat with Skill and Ability. Many wanna-be sailors flounder even in mild wind, because they fear being overcome by the power of the wind without ever gaining the confidence to perform at the helm, while others seize the moment and build strength in being part of the wind in their sails, even when momentarily over-powered.

Certainly any well-prepared sailing craft can instill more confidence to build the necessary skills to perform when the wind picks up better than the marginally equipped, ill-prepared boat. After all, Dont Real Sailors leave the dock in search of the wind and some simulation of genuine excitement?

PS I like reading about real sailing experience and sound advice about standing and running rigging for sailors experienced enough to enjoy more than Setting the Levelers from the dash of the Winnebago, or rolling up the biggest of One Sail Fits All window shades for want of, or lack of, a better choice for sailing performance on any point of sail

They Theirs wrote:Those are Wonderful perspectives for new boaters with a little demand for more than motoring, floating with the current, or sitting at the dock.
The Winnie on water relationship is of coarse acceptable only for those new or inexperienced to sailing.

You can belittle as newbies or inexperienced those who accept Frank C's Winnie on the water analogy if it makes you feel better. Sailing snobs say the same thing about Mac owners in general. Your statements here are no different.

There are those who stand tall on their own, and are secure and comfortable about who they are. There are also those who are insecure, and who try to cut down others around them to try to make themselves appear taller and to make them feel better about themselves.

There are also those who can't or won't intelligently debate an issue, and have to resort to trying to discredit those of an opposing view.

They Theirs wrote:Most Sailors seek the most performance from rigging and appreciate the benefit of setting and trimming the right sail to better their crafts performance. They will rise to the best of their skills to avoid being passed out on the water.

The poll shows 81% of Mac owners here use furlers and another 9% who don't are considering one. I suspect that if you examine other non-racing sailboats by model, you'll find more than half of their owners do too. What makes you think the one-size-fits-all sailor doesn't try to keep from being passed or do their best with the compromise they've accepted?

They Theirs wrote:As we gain sailing experience, demanding a better trim on our sails and balancing our craft to perform in any breeze, well past Winnebago Mans self-reliance having forced him to set his Iron Genny. It may well be the sign of a true sailor who has gained the confidence, reading the water and conditions, while sailing his boat with Skill and Ability. Many wanna-be sailors flounder even in mild wind, because they fear being overcome by the power of the wind without ever gaining the confidence to perform at the helm, while others seize the moment and build strength in being part of the wind in their sails, even when momentarily over-powered.

Ah... there it is... "true sailor," the cry of the sailing snob. And more belittling with the "wannabe sailors" label.

They Theirs wrote:Certainly any well-prepared sailing craft can instill more confidence to build the necessary skills to perform when the wind picks up better than the marginally equipped, ill-prepared boat. After all, Dont Real Sailors leave the dock in search of the wind and some simulation of genuine excitement?

And a variation of that cry, "Real sailors." These terms are usually spoken with the implication, "I'm a real sailor," and you're not because you don't agree with me or sail the same boat (with nose positioned toward the sky).

They're often accompanied by referring to a mast as a spar to try to appear more salty, by self-appointed "real sailors." I notice Todd and Cheryl don't feel the need to do that. In their description of La Perla Noir, they chose to use the more specific term "mast" (i.e. which spar).

They Theirs wrote:PS I like reading about real sailing experience and sound advice about standing and running rigging for sailors experienced enough to enjoy more than Setting the Levelers from the dash of the Winnebago, or rolling up the biggest of One Sail Fits All window shades for want of, or lack of, a better choice for sailing performance on any point of sail

Again, more belittling. Reality check, many here who are doing the performance experimenting aren't experienced sailors. And there are experienced sailors here who've reached a point in their life where Winnebago convenience suits them or their family situation. That doesn't make them any less a sailor in my book.

We're all "sailors" here. Because one choses to make sailing serve him or his family doesn't make him or her any less of a "real" or "true" sailor. Quite the contrary.

Near the first of October, The local sailing club was having one last regatta. Usually, there not held on weekends because of the boat traffic, but the power boaters had pretty much packed it in for the summer. I might have avoided going out altogether, but Id just discovered the dance. I mean It was a bit like being in 8th grade, and wanting to dance with the big girls with the shapes. I was skinny and weighed 85 lbs. I think. How do you control, and lead a girl who is really suddenly so much taller than you? Well, of course you dont. You just nudge and hint, and nod a direction. It was my terrifying introduction into puberty.
It is that which I was just discovering about my Mac. She doesnt go into 4 wheel drifts. You cant double clutch her and slam her gears down. No, Its more like learning to balance on two wheels. In any case, I was determined to not miss this particularly splendid day. A front was moving in , and the wind was just holding the flags out in a slight flutter. Chas. And I took the boat out past some buoys that said DO NOT CROSS , and planned our afternoon just out of reach of the racing action. I hadnt the faintest idea what a racing buoy looked like (do now), and wandered over near a lonely cabin cruiser anchored at the end of the lake so I would be out of the way (Heh! Heh!). My auto snorkel water ballast valve has worked all summer (I need to put that in Mods some day), so I kicked down the stern gate-valve and started hoisting the main. Still having trouble raising that last foot or so? Any way as I was struggling to pull the main, Chas. Said Richard! I think were still on the course. I looked around and saw a Corsair trimaran bearing down on me like Popeye full of spinach. The rest of the pack was close behind, 2 more Corsairs, Ultimate 20's a couple of J-boats, Catalinas, Precisions, a San Juan, and so on. I feel the race for Dover beach in WWII Must have resembled this cacophony. I tried to sail out of the way, wanting to appear somewhat salty, but this forced me upwind, so I fired up the Merc, and motor-sailed out of the way. The bad thing about this was that It put me on the windward side of the course, so I couldnt see in advance the squall lines effect on other craft. The bad thing about this was Other boats were watching me to get advanced warning. I did not want to be the poster child for a pathetic Mac performance, so I Hoisted the 150 genoa, and on a broad reach parallel to the courses 2nd leg. The squall line hit with a puff of about 15-20 knots, perfect for a Mac. Now, it isnt that Ive never seen 30 degrees on the inclinometer before, Its just that Ive always panicked before, and either headed up into the wind, and accidentally gybed, breaking my sail slugs, or something. Chas. Yelled Richard! and gave me that wide eyed look, like do you really know what your doing? In the interim I had been watching the other boats. These guys are nuts. If your worried about scratching your gell-coat, you neednt sign up to race. Most of these guys want to race, and if it means risking a knock-down, so be it.
Puffs in Colorado, and the surrounding dry-air states are inconsistent. You really have to steer a lot to keep her up on her feet. Heading away slightly , and then back , balancing with slight adjustments. I yelled back at Chas.Everythings fine, just trim that sheet. Then he did something that surprised me: the Genny had been flapping for the last 4-5 ft. of the clew. Chas took the genoa sheet in one hand, and the furling line in the other, and began adjusting the sail according to the puffs, and lulls. Risky? Yes, because the sheet could have been yanked through his hand by any hard puff, but the fact is that he too had been infected. Yes! The excitement of pursuing ones own personal limits had overcome presumptive cautions. We were sailing in a race of our own making, and thank God the tack set of their triangular course was on the far side of the lake so we didnt have to show up for that one. The summation was that the Mac performed admirably under these conditions. We passed or kept abreast of much of the field. Its not a first place keelboat, but it is a sailboat, encompassing all the tradition, and adventure that accompanies that image. She does as well or better than her sisters in the right conditions. And is by no means a just a houseboat. Returning to the dock, one of the Ultimates said she has a lot of freeboard , doesnt she? I acknowledged that it was the cost of comfort. The following weekend I saw the Corsair whod handily won the race, and he waved cordially across the water, something hed never done before. Soon after the season ended, and what is different from my first year is that for the next season the Mac has the potential to live up to the images Id originally had about sailing, but it is up to me bring that forth.

Moe
Discretion being the Better Part of Valor..I apologize and ask for forgiveness

Richard OBrien

Now thats some good Stuff! I could feel the flutter in the Genny and whoosh of the wake you were leaving behind.
Love those sailing experiences!

Walk past any marina and 9 out of 10 boats have furlers. Most people, even racers, spend more boat hours cruising than racing.

The ones who really race are usually doing it, not yakking on the web.
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If people are going to get uppity about racing on this board, which is >90% cruisers, Ill guess they can expect little sympathy.

For me its all about time with the kids. Thats it.

Catigale wrote:
For me its all about time with the kids. Thats it.

Cat! Pretty versatile boats these Macs, right?