DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!

Divecoz · Post by **Divecoz** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:23 am

johnnyonspot wrote:Seems like a pretty straight forward fiberglass repair job to me. Even an idiot like me should be able to handle it. Heck, I'd welcome the opportunity for the experience and practice, much as I do when I hit a golf ball into a bunker.

Perhaps as a way of strengthening the repaired area you could drill a couple holes into the exposed area and glue in one or two steel or aluminum rods and then build up around them.

You can actually buy fiberglass rods so just think Root Canal as Johnny posted . Drill a couple holes drive in post long enough to be just short of the surface and build it back up.

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:44 am

I trailer with three things on the rudders

1 The screws and nuts
2 The rudder cords cleated off
3 Last loop of the tie down lines (dock lines) goes around the rudders

Havent dragged one yet (he posts, smugly - blissfully unaware of his own self-invented Charlie Foxtrot yet to happen)

Did drag the CB for ten feet ...

..I now have a loop of old dockline between the trailer rails to catch that stupidity.

Divecoz · Post by **Divecoz** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:33 am

No Bolts and Nuts for ME! I bought my M from Bill at Boats 4 sail. Along with a lot of other little things I have SS Pin's that slide into those bolt holes and then have clip pins to hold them there in place.
Big SS Rings on those pins as well and they store inside the cabin when not in use.
Bill adds a lot of those Salty features to his boats. . . .

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:40 pm

My rudders are from IDA, custom size. They are solid plastic, not fiberglass. Fortunately, Joel said a repair cold be made, but I will lose a few inches off the rudder blade. Probably OK, since they'll still be longer than stock after the repair. Of course I'll have to send them both in so the other rudder can be cut to the same size. No, I will not be doing this myself.

One downside to the IDA rudders is they're HEAVY! About 25 lbs each. Amazing thing with leverage of all that weight is those safety bolts get bent. No kidding. 3/16" bolts bent into a U-shape. Unbelievalbe but true. This is why I no longer use them. I'll probably start using some of those tie-down straps when trailering.

Leon

beene · Post by **beene** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:30 am

Joel said a repair cold be made, but I will lose a few inches off the rudder blade

Sorry to hear that dude.... they say size doesn't matter....

G

Post by **kmclemore** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:21 am

delevi wrote:No kidding. 3/16" bolts bent into a U-shape. Unbelievalbe but true. This is why I no longer use them. I'll probably start using some of those tie-down straps when trailering.

Leon

So why not use grade-8 hardend bolts? I've yet to see one of those bent in any circumstance!

Grade 8 identification (look for the 6 stripes on the bolt head):

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:36 am

To repair simply bore into the core and make a mix of chopped glass to force into the holes. Over build it, sand t to match and marine paint or gel.

http://thefamilybusinessinc.netfirms.com/id35.htm
This link describes the process

Catigale · Post by **Catigale** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:52 am

I almost didnt buy Leons story about the bolts bending until you realise..

about a 3 foot rudder (36 inches)
distance from hold bolt to rudder bolt about 2 inches

Ergo the rudder makes a 9:1 mechanical advantage on the hold bolt using the middle of the rudder.

Those Grade 8s are a good idea after all...

waternwaves · Post by **waternwaves** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:25 am

???

Bolts yielding before failure...... Good
Grade 5's more corrosion resistance than grade 8's ...good

I am not quite following the logic here.

Seems a stiffer bolt is just going to tear through the glass more, probably will not tear through the ida plastics but it probably will deform the bolt hole faster.

Or am I missing something?

Post by **kmclemore** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:32 am

waternwaves wrote:Grade 5's more corrosion resistance than grade 8's ...good

Yeah, but you're only using them for transport, not for running rigging, so they're out and stowed when your wet.

As for making the holes round, well, I suppose that's possible, but if it's that bad I'd drill for a second set.

Richard O'Brien · Post by **Richard O'Brien** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:46 am

I think Idasailor uses polypropylene sheet stock for their rudders? Nothing sticks to that stuff, not even epoxy. It's so resistant to fluid penetration(i.e. glues), it's used for cutting boards. My understanding is that you can heat weld it, but no glues. I suspect the only option is to cut Leon's damaged rudders down a bit. That may be ok as my Idasailor's are much shorter than his, and I've had no problem, even in 20 kt. winds. My boat stayed on her feet while the Catalina 25 beside me kept rounding up last Nov.

I've had really good luck with just a double bungee on each rudder. No fuss, and really quick. If I go very far, I add a tie down.

delevi · Post by **delevi** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:16 am

Grade 8 bolts eh? Will have to pick some up at HD. Thanks Kevin. I'd say the stronger the better and they'll never see water so no need for corrosion resistance. I'm still amazed at how I bent the 3/16 SS bolts. Happened more than once, so I stopped using them and now I'm paying, quite literally for rudder repair. I guess the same leverage force is what caused the line to snap, probably after going over a pothole on the highway. Newer line with approx 1200 lb breaking strength. Go figure.

Beene, size does matter, when it comes to rudders of course

Good news from Joel is he can cut the bottom leading edges and route back, essentially leaving the overall blade length the same, with a small loss at the very front bottom. Won't ever know the difference he says. The man knows his rudders, so I believe him.

Leon

bscott · Post by **bscott** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:10 pm

Yes--cut the other rudder same shape, finish off, and go sailing. Who knows, maybe you just discovered a "faster foil"

Dave X2000 Jac · Post by **Dave X2000 Jac** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:52 am

That rudder in the photo looks about the same as mine. Maybe that one has a little cleaner wear. A significant difference is that mine has taken that form from sailing - - - six summers in the North Channel of Lake Huron. A little fiber glass gel each fall seals up the "new shape" - ready for another season of the best fresh-water, exploration sailing one can imagine. All of you "Norte Americanos", trailer your Macs up there ASAP. It is well worth the drive.
Dave "Jac"

JustSail · Post by **JustSail** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:43 am

When I bought my M the dealer suggested taking the rudders off if you're going a long distance. I was surprised just how easy they were to remove and put back on. Takes all of 5 minutes. Just 2 knots and a bolt each.

That worked really well going to Key West and back.

MacGregorSailors.com

MacGregorSailors.com

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN TO YOU!

Rudder looks normal