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delevi wrote:Also, keep in mind that when sailing, your genoa will actually pull the mast forward, thus the force on the forestay is a lot less than you would think.

Actually, the genny (or jib) pulls the forestay forward, which in turn pulls the mast forward. Every bit of load on a standard headsail is transferred to the mast and stemhead by increased tension on the forestay. Only a loose luffed sail, like a spin- or gennaker, pulls the mast foward and reduces the load on the forestay.

I stand corrected. I was under the assumption that two opposing forces would cancel each other out (mast pulls forestay aft, jib pulls forestay forward.) Certainly the forces are not equal, but the concept was that the forward pull presents an overall reduction of load on the forestay. Chip, please elaborate since I flunked physics 101

Leon

I can only talk from expierience. My mast came down last year while motoring through a heavy chop. The only thing that kept it from hitting the deck was the 1/4 furling line that was cleated off. My shrouds were a little on the loose side and I believe the "bouncing" of the mast was the cause. I know there are many people here with a lot more expierience then myself and I respect that. However.... It is my Head not thiers....I ran a second forestay last year after it happened and it does give me piece of mind knowing it is there. My boat was new and there was some sort of pin failure. Either pin shear or cotter pin failure. It had a quick release style pin and it was installed properly and checked prior to the trip that day. Now I only use a ring ding type of pin. I will modify my rig this year and replace the line I used with a cable. What I think you need to do is place a bail at the masthead and come down from that point to a point just forward of the furler. At that angle it will clear the jib at all points. I have no pics of this but in about 4 weeks I will document it a little more in depth.

Well, having read this thread and others concerning the forestay I decided to check into the cost of a new forestay. I need a 5/32 for the Schaefer Snapfurl I ordered anyway. I saw a booth for Protech Marine at the boat show and spoke to them about it and then went to their shop (they are in the greater vancouver area). I took my existing forestay in with me and asked about having it changed to 5/32. After some discussion I decided to keep my original forestay and have a second more robust one made up.
Cost:
$1.20/ft for 5/32 cable = $34.80
Top swage parts $15.00
5/16 turnbuckle + stud = $37.00
Labour $10.00
Total $96.80 + pst/gst = $108.42
Peace of mind = priceless
I could have used the existing turnbuckle but I liked the look of the next size up better so I forked over the extra cash.
The 5/16 turnbuckle is substantially beefier than the whimpy 1/4 inch OEM turnbuckle and the pin that passes through the U shaped thingy and through the forestay tang/chainplate is a perfect fit so the OEM one on the 1/4 TB was too small. Anyway I now have a spare forestay and feel much better about the new forerstay which I had made shorter because I had the same experience as Leon after tuning the rig, I discovered that the OEM forestay could be about 1-1/2 inches shorter for more range of adjustment. Now I only have to wait for my Snapfurl to arrive. I'll have to revisit Highlanders pics to decide how to use my extra forestay, for now it can be stored below. I am not sure how to use it as a safety back-up with a furler in the way.

I just replaced the original forestay because 3 strands were broken on the 1/8 stay because when the CDI furler was installed they didn't install a toggle at the mast therefor causeing fatiuge.
I ordered a new 5/32 with swage fitting at mast fitting and toggle.
CDI states a toggle must be fited to both ends of the headstay to prevent fatigue.
most CDI furlers I have seen don't include this toggle at top end and I for one relize how important it is.
Mac X has 5/32 shrouds but only 1/8 Forestay. in all my years sailing all kinds of boats never has a forstay be less than the shrouds and 95% the headstay is one larger that Shrouds because it exserts more pressure.
Dave

Catigale wrote:Someone lost one last year (Chris?) when the swage at the top of the mast let go IIRC..

try this, head stay with 5/32 1x19 premium with swage fittings and stud for 1/4 turnbuckle for $46 shipped.
http://www.riggingonly.com/

Terry wrote:Well, having read this thread and others concerning the forestay I decided to check into the cost of a new forestay. I need a 5/32 for the Schaefer Snapfurl I ordered anyway. I saw a booth for Protech Marine at the boat show and spoke to them about it and then went to their shop (they are in the greater vancouver area). I took my existing forestay in with me and asked about having it changed to 5/32. After some discussion I decided to keep my original forestay and have a second more robust one made up.
Cost:
$1.20/ft for 5/32 cable = $34.80
Top swage parts $15.00
5/16 turnbuckle + stud = $37.00
Labour $10.00
Total $96.80 + pst/gst = $108.42
Peace of mind = priceless
I could have used the existing turnbuckle but I liked the look of the next size up better so I forked over the extra cash.
The 5/16 turnbuckle is substantially beefier than the whimpy 1/4 inch OEM turnbuckle and the pin that passes through the U shaped thingy and through the forestay tang/chainplate is a perfect fit so the OEM one on the 1/4 TB was too small. Anyway I now have a spare forestay and feel much better about the new forerstay which I had made shorter because I had the same experience as Leon after tuning the rig, I discovered that the OEM forestay could be about 1-1/2 inches shorter for more range of adjustment. Now I only have to wait for my Snapfurl to arrive. I'll have to revisit Highlanders pics to decide how to use my extra forestay, for now it can be stored below. I am not sure how to use it as a safety back-up with a furler in the way.

Well I finally got these pictures posted. This has been tested and so far all is good. Mast hound should be as hgh on the mast as possible and turnbuckle is on the port side of anchor roller. In this location there is no interference to the furling jib and the Mod was less then $100, including swagging tool from Duckworks.com This now gives me some piece of mind with a redundant forestay

Catigale wrote:For the last option, see here

Cat,

I'm kind of late to this thread and at the risk of redundancy will say the guy in your link turned an 'X' fractional Sloop rig into a Cutter rig.

Interesting!

To the guy who started this thread and is concerned about the forestay my advice is to just check your rigging each time before sailing off into the wild-blue-yonder and don't worry about it so much, just enjoy your sailing. Demasting is rare and even rarer among those who check their standing rigging frequently. As Cat has said, you already have redundancy on the bow end in your furler line if cleated off.

There is far too much hand wringing on this forum. Worries about motor sizes and demasting, and transom stress cracks on the gel coat (that is only about a 1/16" deep) and all sorts of things. Just use your head and enjoy your sailing. Let the little old ladies that check under their beds at night before they go to sleep, do the worrying in life. And ask your grandmother (or mother if you have no grandmother) to pray for you and just go do it -- Whatever it is that you do. If you have no mother or grandmother praying for you then worry a lot. Otherwise enjoy life.

Kind Regards,
JonBill

There is far too much hand wringing on this forum. Worries about motor sizes and demasting, and

transom stress cracks on the gel coat (that is only about a 1/16" deep)

and all sorts of things. Just use your head and enjoy your sailing. Let the little old ladies that check under their beds at night before they go to sleep, do the worrying in life. And ask your grandmother (or mother if you have no grandmother) to pray for you and just go do it -- Whatever it is that you do. If you have no mother or grandmother praying for you then worry a lot. Otherwise enjoy life.

Yep, and dont forget to dive into murky lakes without checking water depth or for submerged trees with your boat hook. Geesh.

just kidding

I specifically posted that without qualifying to ease concerns from someone that raised concerns. Not because I was wringing my hands or checking under a bed. I was fishing for honest answers. But thanks anyway.

Scott wrote:I specifically posted that without qualifying to ease concerns from someone that raised concerns. Not because I was wringing my hands or checking under a bed. I was fishing for honest answers. But thanks anyway.

Scott,

You specifically posted what? I didn't follow you on that.

BTW is there anything bad about encouraging folks to enjoy their sailing more and to worry less about what could go wrong? Just a bit of general philosophy is all.

But you have a good point there so perhaps I stand corrected and should have also said; now if something is standing in the way of your enjoyment (like a concern), then by all means build a better mousetrap to alleviate the concern, so that you have peace of mind about it, so that you can enjoy your sailing more. Another bit of philosophy for those who have concerns.

So there's a little something for everybody.

Kind Regards,
JonBill

Jonbill,

You are fairly new so I offer my apologies, allow me to introduce myself,
Scott, Professional A-hole. Dont try this at home I get paid for it.

Good save. I understood your point clearly and perhaps was a little abrasive in my comeback.

I posted the thread about the cracks in the transom.

My concern was in regards to a post seeming to respond to a serious query by urging tossing caution to the wind. ( I also use my spinnaker halyard as a redundant backup)

I took no offense from your post and offered none in mine.

I will close this reply by paraphrasing the words of a wise fellow goes by the handle "Water-n-waves."

Offensive statements are usually preceded by the statement I Mean no offense "BUT"

Jonbill my post was in reply to a bad situation I was involved in which luckily no one got hurt. We can get into checking your rig and other scenarios but my post was really to make myself and the Admiral more comfortable while out for a sail. I am a firm believer of if it happens once it can happen twice. If the mast was just going to fall in the water I would be OK with that. But when I looked up and it was literally 10 feet above our heads before stopping. I must admit I was slightly concerned.
A lot of post are from newbies and repeat different subject matters that make common sense to some but we may need a second opinion from the more expierienced owners/sailors and for that we thank all who provide input. I know myself I have not posted my last "Dumb" question.

Maybe we should have a "This is a dumb question ....But...." Section

Jonbill I am not jumping out at you so please do not take it personally .....Fairwinds

The only 'dumb' question is the one you don't ask because you thought it was too dumb.

What is the attachment shackle on the furler drum doing in this pic close-up copied from the above photo ? I can't seem to figure out the picture. The tension direction is not lined up, as far as I can see.

It looks like a snap shackle on the furler drum bottom, but it is slack, and attached to ?? . Maybe the mast is not raised, and there is no tension on the furler, or its attachment point is hidden, but something does not make sense to me ...

On EDIT, after the subsequent explanation and especially the photo of the other side of the anchor roller, I realize that the M's fore-tang is way different than that of the X, where the M tang is flat to the bow, and all the way forward, and the X that I am familiar with is back further, has two holes, and is oriented lengthwise to the boat. The attachment to the tang point is not visible in that first photo. IOW, 'was having an X-moment.

ALX-
The Mast is up and I believe you are looking at the stock non-furling jib shackle I left it attached so I may attach the base of the Genoa cover to it when it is in place. This is attached to the forestay Tang (not sure on the correct terminology) attached to the bow. I believe there were two holes drilled into it. As you are looking at it there is nothing connected, and the shackle is open.
If needed I can confirm next time I am at the boat. I posted a Port side view to possibly help on the visual. (the quick release pin you see in this picture is in place as a "back up clevis pin" so there is always one close at hand)

....All three pics were taken in sequence on the same day.