Tacking in high winds

[vizwhiz]

Tap the pic and it will take you to photobucket where you can watch the video.

In particular, watch video 32/48 and 33/48 and you can see the boat getting pulled over with the gusts.

[Highlander]

Is this the one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Isufp-6fudo


Claes

Now that,s nasty hope they were all ok ! look,s like their furler had jammed & they were trying to figure out what too do , shoulda just released the halyard & pulled the headsail down onto the bow ?

J

[Highlander]

These guy,s r pro. sailor,s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79xmsmaUaS4

J

[Jimmyt]

Ages 20 to 50 all wearing jackets, all survived. Hypothermia scrapes and bruises, one back injury, and one dislocated shoulder was all I could get from the news. They reportedly had been racing, but it seems like a skilled crew could have gotten control of the boat long before they got into the breakers.

I bet he wishes he could have fired up his 60 Etec and gotten his boat safely in.

Yikes

[Ixneigh]

Yikes for sure. Hard to tell if footing off a few degrees would have giving him steerage.
Ix

[BOAT]

Is this the one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Isufp-6fudo


Claes

Yeah, racing - what a joke - racing - I see this way too often by people racing - the one thing that I see and it's something I notice a lot of knuckleheads do because of "racing" - and then there is number two - the number two thing has to do with trying to turn the boat into the wind when the wind is so strong it's blowing you back out of the wind - I said it 20 time before and I think I even said it in this post:

If the boat is broadsided by wind and you can't turn into the wind TURN AWAY FROM THE WIND - it's an emergency tactic - you turn downwind and risk a jibe long enough for the boat to get legs again OR you stay on the downwind run and hold on for dear life.

So on number two: if the dummy holding the tiller over to starboard would have just pulled the tiller to port the boat would have shot down the crest of one of the waves at speed and he would have avoided the pier and probably kept the boat upright - I know that pier and he's still far enough out to turn IF he can get back through the waves - he should have taken a course directly parallel to the pier and got speed - then in the next trough with that much speed he MIGHT have enough legs on the boat to turn it back into the wind but it's a real iffy slog trying to point a boat into the wind into crashing waves with only half a headsail - I would give his odds 20% he would have made it back out to sea. 80% odds he would end up on the beach - but being on a sandy beach saves his crew and the boat from the damage of wrecking on the pilings - really bad decisions there on the tiller. Nothing looks dumber than a boat going zero knots with a pilot holding a tiller over to one side expecting something to happen. Really embarrassing - did no one ever teach him to even scull? - at least SCULL the rudder - that's the LEAST you do in irons. The whole crew would have been better off if there was NO ONE at the helm than that idiot.

But that's not the worst of it - the worse part is number ONE:

RACING (or SO CALLED racing) with NO MOTOR! I've seen it before I've seen it a hundred times - there's always those knot heads that leave the outboard on shore trying to shed weight for a race - what a dork - every skipper that does that is a dork - I have seen my share of skippers who shed the outboard to race and they are all dorks - and they never win the race.

That's the most stupidest part of that video - totally unavoidable accident because a DORK left the outboard on shore thinking it would make his boat faster in a race.

What a DORK!

[Phil M]

Is this the one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Isufp-6fudo


Claes

I can certainly sympathize with the skipper on this one.

[sailboatmike]

Thats the time when one just loves to turn the key and hear the big 50 or 60Hp motor fire into life, knowing you have that much power at your disposal is a mighty comforting thing when things start getting a bit nasty.

Plus one for the Mac

[BOAT]

The boat is a Martin 24 - the skipper stowed the motor - the race rules a motor must be on board, but I did not see any motor in the wreckage - in the followup video you can see the transom break off the boat and see the motor mount on the aft and there is no motor. The skipper was attempting to ENTER A HARBOR WITH NO MOTOR!!

If I did that in my day and risked the lives of a youngster and another person into pilings my dad would have had me shot on site.

Real live serious racers contemplate the effect of their motor but com'on folks - it's a Martin 24 - these are cheap nothin' boats for play and any race involving these boats against a J24 (in the background) would be LUDICROUS! I view this Martin 24 the same way I would view kids racing their Lido's in the weekly regatta in long beach or Newport it's a disposable boat suited for what he was doing - it's fun and safe for the most part but sailing around pilings is unforgivable for ANYONE - even a child in a sabot knows better. Sailing boats with no motor like dinghy's and Hobie cats and such means being prepared to enter the water - that part I will give him, but sailing near pilings is just unforgivable. On that one i can't give him any slack.

Sailing without a motor is optional on a small enough boat - the gray area is 22 to 24 feet - I myself will not sail anything over 20 feet without one. - I think he chose wrong here.

[bwygirl]

When sailing in strong wind, over 15 knots and up to 25, here are some things to be sure you do.
1) Ballast full
2) Rudders down, All the way to the stops!
3) Daggerboard, for the 26M, and Swing centerboard for the 26X, All the way down. None of this 1/2 way stuff!
4) VERY IMPORTANT make sure the engine is up and held in a fixed position!! I cannot stress this enough. With the engine down you are creating a tremendous amount of drag through the water and on the steering system if it is hooked to the steering. You cannot tack this boat in high, or low winds for that matter, when the engine is down. Now, if you want to go downwind and leave the engine down it only slows you down. But, if you want to go upwind and tack you must have the engine up!
5) Rig tension, you must have tight upper and lower shrouds. By tight I mean that if you stand on top of the boat and can't move the shrouds much more than an inch or two.
6) Placement of the Jib car. The Jib car must be in the forward most hole. If it is in any other setting there will be too much bag in the sail, it won''t sheet right and you will not be able to tack.

Now we get to the sails:
1) Use a Jib for heavy winds. It sheets directly to the cabin top which is inside the shrouds. This makes is sheet tighter and point higher. Also, the jib allows for quicker tacks. If you only have a genoa, you can roll up the sail but it will not make into a good upwind sail.
2) You can roll the Jib up if the winds are high, a little smaller will allow for better visibility and an even quicker tack.
3) Mainsail, single or double reef depending on how high the wind is. Sheet in tight and use the traveller during gusts. Use the outhaul, pull it tight. Make sure the halyard is tight!! Lastly use the vang, pull it in tight. When in big gusts ease the sheet.

Hang on and have fun! It will tack now! Cheryl

[Phil M]

You are correct in that there was no motor available when he needed it the most. It very much looked like he was having trouble with both sails.

[sailboatmike]

The boat is a Martin 24 - the skipper stowed the motor - the race rules a motor must be on board,

Our rules are different, the motor must be carried AND fitted, this is the exact reason why our rules state that.

Generally in normal sailing one would only use the motor when you really need it, when it "hits the fan" is no time to be grabbing a stowed motor, hooking it to the transom bracket, tightening it up and hoping it will start within a couple of pulls on the starter cord.

Really its no different to be trying to find and put on your carefully stowed lifejacket under the bunk with 100lbs of junk on it when the boat is just about to be smashed on the rocks

[grady]

Not trying to defend him, however we should remember. We were not there and do not have all the information that the skipper had during this event. No one here is perfect! Being a Monday morning quarterback is EASY!

We should just be thankful they are safe and learn from others. We have all been in a situation where we made the wrong decision.

[BOAT]

Not trying to defend him, however we should remember. We were not there and do not have all the information that the skipper had during this event. No one here is perfect! Being a Monday morning quarterback is EASY!

We should just be thankful they are safe and learn from others. We have all been in a situation where we made the wrong decision.

I know the area and the facilities - if he was trying to enter a harbor that close to the pier it must have been King Harbor, so . .

I looked up the King Harbor Regatta logs for the Yacht Club to see if any Martin 242's were registered under open or PHRF classes and this is what I found:

There are three Martin 242's listed for KHYC - One of them, Hull number 97321 is a boat called Bad Wolf - Skipper is from Torrance named Abbeduto

Eye witnesses who know Abbeduto and saw the video said that Abbeduto was NOT AT THE HELM! Abbeduto was the guy on deck struggling with the jib sheet!

Like I said - the guy at the helm was a DORK. I'm not saying it's his fault - he can't help it if he is a dork - it's not his fault he is not properly trained and the captain put him on the helm - the bottom line is that the skipper put a DORK on the helm. That action alone doomed the boat, not to mention all the other bad choices made:

1 - Sailing near pilings
2 - Sailing a Harbor Entrance with no motor available
3 - Turning the wrong way when in irons
4 - Putting a DORK on the helm.

If the skipper stayed on the helm the whole time I believe his experience at the tiller would have made him turn the boat downwind to get speed - something all us experienced skippers all do instinctively when in irons - back off the wind a little to get speed and then make another run at the tack - we all do it all the time - but the guy at the helm obviously having no experience is just holding the tiller hard to one side trying to get over the waves - that alone was the reason the boat drifted into the pier. If the owner was at the helm he probably would have headed the boat downwind with the breakers behind him and been able to land on the beach or even better - make a turn on the back side of a wave. With that dork on the helm they had no chance.

[Highlander]

I don,t think he had a chance either way #1 that looks like it was a light boat to begin with & #2 even if he had his little kicker on & likely would not have enough HP to push his boat over those waves , but as u say if he had tried to do like u say @ the very start when he first got into trouble he likely had a chance as he was well out & away from those pylon,s , U,d b amazed at how many good experienced Skipper,s just fall apart & panic in these situations

Go on utube & u,ll see all kinds all heavy keel sail boats get into the same trouble under power entering a harbour on the wrong wave , that wave that rolled him was a big rouge wave thats the one he shoulda been behind sailin into the harbour ! & only in an emg. situation

Do u think the yacht club will have enough sense to change the rules regarding engine,s now !! Sadly likely not

J