I'm back...Bimini top and many upgrades

[81venture]

I finished the rail and the Swim ladder.




Putting this on created a few issues so I had to do some other work to make it all fit. The Bimini Top used to lay flat, but now that the rudder goes between the boat stern and the rail I can't lift it up high enough to raise/lower the bimini.

Solved this by taking some SS rail and leftover bimini top hardware and built this. Sorry, in the pics the Bimini is not rolled up and covered as it normally would be, but you get the idea.





I like it, it makes the boat look so much more "expensive" and it also got the bimini off the back taffet rails, which is where I prefer to sit while sailing/motoring. I Used quick connects at the bases so when trailering and lowering the mast the bimini lies on top of the rudder. I built a mast crutch out of a life ring mount. When the mast goes up the bimini is lifted and the back support poles clip in and its stored above our heads and looks o so cool. the Crutch is removed from its mount and stored below....it's about 3ft long maybe and can be seen sitting on the swim platform in the first pic.

I am having my upholstery girl shorten the mainsail again by about 6 inches. I would like to be able to sail with it up. Right now I CAN sail with it in the new stored up position, but the boom isn't high enough to OPEN the Bimini. I own an industrial sail-sewing machine now. I bought it and its at her place and she now can do sail repair. Since its my machine I get it done free

Got a person dropping off a San Juan 23 for bottom work/paint today. Was going to be a cash job but then I realized I have dealt with this person previously a few years ago. Sold them a trailer. She builds custom kayaks from wood and is a master woodworker. Kinda female version of Sumner. When I realized that I am now going to barter with her and get some woodworking projects done inside the cabin of our boat that are out of my skillset.

Cheers

Dave

[81venture]

Christine and Karen brought their San Juan today

2700 lbs and she's in the air.



They need a lot of topside stuff that I, by coincidink, have extras of....like bow pulpit (damaged), stern rail (non existant, I have 3), life line stanchions are alum and I have SS ones....

In exchange for using the lift, and all the equipment they'll need which will save them tons, christine is about to "Pimp my ride" with the woodwork I want done on mine.

My goal is to make Henry's Chiquita look like a chump! (J/K Henry...I simply mean I want mine to look as nice as yours inside as the chiquitas interior is the goal I hope to achieve)


Full of beer, signing off...stay tuned for Pimped pics of the woodwork on the Vn23

Crazy how the san juan is same length, but much wider than our VN....the cabin inside is enormous!

Cheers Mates

Dave

[81venture]

I added a Shore Power Plug to the VN23 yesterday.



Did a little research last night and have a question. The Shore power plug is a 30 amp rated. However the wire I am using on the inside is just a short chunk of re-cycled heavy duty drop cord. I have no plans to add any heavy draw A/C devices, now nor in the future. I am not an idiot

I want to add an onboard battery charger that also provides power when connected to shore power. All the devices on the boat at once might be 10-12 amps total. LED lighting, stereo, two small fans and thats about it. I also have a 2 battery bank. So I am thinking a charger that can provide maybe 10-15 amps at 12V should be sufficient to keep batteries full and reserve to run cabin lighting/fans.

I was looking online a little bit and seems that "charger/inverters" for boats are usually much bigger (amps) and price than I can afford. Like I said I don't really have a large power drain.

Curious what ya'll use if you have one....

So far the plan is to add 1 single A/C outlet (just in case, and not for anything high amp...maybe laptop, phone charger....) and the charger for the battery bank....

[Estate Sail]

I have a 30amp plug on the boat. I bought a 30amp plug for it and cut the female end of a 12 gauge extension cord and added this plug. this allows me to charge my batteries and gives me 110 volts at home. I made an extension cord from another 12 gauge cord with a standard 110 volt female plug and a 30 amp male plug for shore power. So when at the dock I plug the two cords together and I have shore power. At home I just use one and have 110 at home with a 15 amp plug. As long as you don't draw more than 15 amps this should work good. It has for me.

[81venture]

I am doing something similar and won't be pulling more than 15 amps A/C for sure

To Clarify my main question is more of what unit to purchase for inside the boat that will charge 2 batteries and provide an additional say 10 amps at 12vdc

I have tried searching, and maybe my keywords are incorrect, but mostly seem to be finding either battery tenders (2.5 amp charge) and elaborate invertors priced way past $400 and up.

Looking a charger that will charge, and run my 12v lights etc at the same time.

Someone around here told me there is a camper/RV boneyard....an invertor from an RV would work, from say a pop up, but the prob is its usually only good for 1 battery....the marine ones I seen will charge 2....but they are also way larger in size/price/power than I would actually need I think.

[Sumner]

..I want to add an onboard battery charger that also provides power when connected to shore power. ..

Are you saying shore power while the boat is at home 'on shore' or shore power when the boat is 'in the water'?

There is a big difference. At home I have an extension cord with the female plug hanging out a vent at the back of the boat and run tools and such inside the boat with a cord coming from the house to the boat plug and all the outlets in the house are GFI protected.

If you are on the water, and especially using a charger on the water that is connected to 110 v. of shore power and also to the 12 volt batteries you have some safety considerations to heavily weight both for yourself and for those that might be in the water near your boat. You wouldn't want to be responsible for someone's death.



Charging at home with a car charge is no big deal but on the water you really need a marine charger and not just because it is marine quality. You need it and proper boat wiring, especially the ground side of the wiring to make sure you are not presenting a hazard to yourself and others.

Here are 3 links and I wouldn't do the 'on the water' unless you have full understanding of them and follow them...

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/M ... ng-Systems

http://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/T ... Conditions

http://qualitymarineservices.net/Neutra ... 2-2005.pdf

I never connect our boat to 110 while in the water because the boat isn't wired for that. I'm sure hundreds do, but that doesn't make it right because every year people are killed in this manner.

Also be sure that your 110 circuits on the boat are GFI protected.

Please don't think I'm harping at you but getting this info out there to others that also read all of these posts ,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[Sumner]

...Someone around here told me there is a camper/RV boneyard....an invertor from an RV would work...

An inverter is not going to charge the batteries it is going to change the 12 volt battery power into 110 volt power. I'm not hearing that you need that but that you want a battery charger that is large enough to charge the batteries and provide extra power at the same time for your 12 volt needs.

Look at some of the ones here...

http://www.defender.com/battery-chargers.jsp

Something like this...



http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... 963&id=969

...Guest would do what you are talking about. If you were at a marina overnight say in 8 hours that has the capability of putting in 80 amp/hours back into your battery bank. If you had taken more than 80 out the previous day you are probably hurting your batteries and drawing them down more than 50%. One of the smaller ones would probably work like this one....

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?pa ... &id=131403

The first one can do two separate banks of batteries, say a house bank and a battery for starting that are on different circuits. The second will only charge one bank, but that could still be say two 12 volt batteries that are wired in parallel just for more capacity (probably your situation).

Good luck,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[81venture]

Are you saying shore power while the boat is at home 'on shore' or shore power when the boat is 'in the water'?


Please don't think I'm harping at you but getting this info out there to others that also read all of these posts ,

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

Hi Sumner, thanks for the Feedback

Right now the thinking is this.

1. I had this expensive shore power connector, it beat just using a drop cord hanging out the back so I installed it because it looks better.

2. I am familiar with wiring loads, and ABYC standards.... I glanced at your links (will read in detail later) and agree whole heartedly more research is required before I actually try to run "Shore Power" say at a slip in the water.

3. Right now mostly would be used at home, and sometimes we park the boat at the beach at the old campground we used to stay at and just sleep right in the boat on the trailer. They have RV connections at the sites...figured it would be nice to have an invertor keep batteries fresh, and be able to run fans/lights/radio. I have no galley so no high amp draw devices like hot plates or microwaves. We have a small two cup coffee maker would be the max Amp draw device I would ever use....and I currently can run that off my 900W generator. Have to look on the back for the actual draw but I don't think it exceeds 15 amps.

4. I plan to add ONE AC outlet, a GFI of course, but only for low load devices...say someone forgot their 12v phone charger but does have the AC one....or wifes laptop for example....otherwise really wouldn't use the A/C plug in the cabin much. I currently have a 400W A/C inverter installed runs off the battery for emergency laptop charging or whatever....but again only low load devices. For now the main concern is enough invertor to run about 10 amps or so of DC devices and keep batteries topped...




No real plans to use it on the water as of yet, but would be nice to have that option as well...I dont see myself docking at slips much since I am a cheap bastard and they charge by the foot....and the buggers include the extra 2 foot in the wooden spare....

Dave

[81venture]

An inverter is not going to charge the batteries it is going to change the 12 volt battery power into 110 volt power. I'm not hearing that you need that but that you want a battery charger that is large enough to charge the batteries and provide extra power at the same time for your 12 volt needs.

On an R/V I have heard them called "invertor/chargers" as they convert A/C into useable 12V power for the 12 volt system in the camper as well as charge batteries... maybe that is the incorrect term but that's what I have always heard it called. When you are off the hookup the A/C plugs do not work and you rely 100% on battery storage. When you plug in the A/C the outlets inside provide power, and the convertor/invertor provides 12v power and battery charging. At least that is how our last pop up was setup

i am familiar with what you mean by invertor as in A/C power from a DC source though. I am not trying to get A/C power from my battery bank in this case...

yes you are exactly right I want enough power to charge and provide 12v power for cabin lights etc.

[81venture]

I am thinking I like this one

http://www.amazon.com/Guest-2611A-Batte ... roduct_top

and half the price on Amazon

looks like it will do what I need....

[Tomfoolery]

That's the one I put into my two years ago. Got it on sale at WM for a similar price. WM's site now shows what appears to be the same unit in Marinco paint, with some additional functionality, and it appears Marinco is killing the Guest brand. Price is about twice that of the Guest unit you linked to.

It's worked just fine for me since I put it in. I don't usually leave the power on when I'm not on the boat, but when I have, I've never seen signs of overcharging. I have both outputs combined into one flooded battery, but the boat is set up for two batts, which is why I went with that unit. I'll get a second deep-cycle in the spring.

It has no trouble keeping up with a few incandescent lights and a fan, which is all the DC stuff I use at a dock.

As to shore power, there is a lot published on how to do it right, but it ain't going to be cheap. It's not wise to put a 15 or 20A receptacle on a 30A circuit (and an NEC violation, but this is a boat), plus you need reverse polarity indication, leakage current detection and protection, a panel to protect branch circuits at 15A, and so on. You can buy a panel that does all that in one, which is the most cost-effective way to go.

My boat came with a 30A shore power connection to a 30A 2-pole 120V breaker (you're supposed to break both poles with the main in a marine application, even at 120V) with reverse polarity indication, and a single 15A GFCI duplex receptacle wired to it with a piece of NM (Romex) building wire. Boxes were screwed to the liner with drywall screws. It's still that way, but I'm working on some galley finishes that can incorporate a real 120V panel, since the power inlet is just aft of the galley, so I can clean that mess up.

One project at a time.

[Sumner]

I am thinking I like this one

http://www.amazon.com/Guest-2611A-Batte ... roduct_top

and half the price on Amazon

looks like it will do what I need....

That looks fine and with Tom's post looks like a good way to go. I just did a quick search on Defender to give you an idea of what you need to be using along with the other items Tom talked about to have a safe install on the water. Land is easier.

Here is a link to the manual for that charger...

http://www.batterystuff.com/files/manual-gu2611a1.pdf

Sumner

============================
Our MacGregor 26-S

Our Endeavour 37

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

Mac-Venture Links

[RobertB]

Ok, I know there is the full-up proper and expensive way to do this, and sometime in the future I may upgrade to this. But my current approach that is working is:
Heavy duty power cord to a GFI outlet and then to a ProMariner battery charger. This takes very good care of the batteries and allows use of DC on "shore power." My Dometic cooler stays hooked up to the DC circuit at all times. I question the need for a polarity indicator for DC applications since there is no ground plane in our boats. The battery charger does not care. My use of AC power appliances is minimal and IMO, if appliances have a separate frame ground (and three prong plug) and there is no ground plane on the boat, I do not see the issue on polarity for AC (but on this point I expect to be corrected ).

Oh, and my understanding is that an inverter is defined as a unit that converts DC power to AC power. For shore power use, there is little or no need for an inverter. An inverter is only needed when only DC power is available and you need to run n AC appliance. You should choose your inverter carefully since there are two types - a modified sine wave and a pure sine wave. Not all items will run on the less expensive modified sine wave type - such as units with a digital clock where the appliance is looking for the intersection of the power curve with the "0" axis. A modified sine wave inverter power curve is squared off and "pauses" at zero.
Also, when running off a battery source, look at the power factor of any AC to DC conversion. For example, a computer power block (in the AC power cord) has about a 50% power factor. That means you will need to input twice as much DC power to the AC power cord as needed per the DC power rating (if it is a 45 watt laptop, you will need to supply the AC inverter 90 watts).

[81venture]

It has no trouble keeping up with a few incandescent lights and a fan, which is all the DC stuff I use at a dock.

As to shore power, there is a lot published on how to do it right, but it ain't going to be cheap. It's not wise to put a 15 or 20A receptacle on a 30A circuit (and an NEC violation, but this is a boat), plus you need reverse polarity indication, leakage current detection and protection, a panel to protect branch circuits at 15A, and so on. You can buy a panel that does all that in one, which is the most cost-effective way to go.

My boat came with a 30A shore power connection to a 30A 2-pole 120V breaker (you're supposed to break both poles with the main in a marine application, even at 120V) with reverse polarity indication, and a single 15A GFCI duplex receptacle wired to it with a piece of NM (Romex) building wire. Boxes were screwed to the liner with drywall screws. It's still that way, but I'm working on some galley finishes that can incorporate a real 120V panel, since the power inlet is just aft of the galley, so I can clean that mess up.

One project at a time.

Hmm...I'll have to look up this "Panel" and see how much that will cost

My initial thought was a 15 amp breaker and a single GFI... I could also skip the A/C outlet altogether I suppose. I don't think I will ever NEED it, but thought thinking ahead would be a good idea.

Having useable A/C power on the boat is not a priority for anything else other than running this charger unit I am going to buy.

I wonder if this will simplify the install? As from reading the specs on the unit it comes with a simple 110 power cord. Some cut and hardwire it into a panel, and others simply run a drop cord from the shore power station to it.

Other than installing the shore power "Plug" I am essentially only doing the "drop chord" theory stated above to my boat....for example my buddy slips his boat, and he just has a drop chord running through the hatch to a battery tender.

Maybe I could just hardwire the unit directly to my shore power plug?? essentially turning it into a basic drop chord setup, and yet leave room to may be upgrade more in the future??

I don't see that doing this and skipping the A/C outlet wouldn't be the same as an extension chord, just with an overpriced connector no?

[81venture]

Ok, I know there is the full-up proper and expensive way to do this, and sometime in the future I may upgrade to this. But my current approach that is working is:
Heavy duty power cord to a GFI outlet and then to a ProMariner battery charger. This takes very good care of the batteries and allows use of DC on "shore power." My Dometic cooler stays hooked up to the DC circuit at all times. I question the need for a polarity indicator for DC applications since there is no ground plane in our boats. The battery charger does not care. My use of AC power appliances is minimal and IMO, if appliances have a separate frame ground (and three prong plug) and there is no ground plane on the boat, I do not see the issue on polarity for AC (but on this point I expect to be corrected ).

Oh, and my understanding is that an inverter is defined as a unit that converts DC power to AC power. For shore power use, there is little or no need for an inverter. An inverter is only needed when only DC power is available and you need to run n AC appliance. You should choose your inverter carefully since there are two types - a modified sine wave and a pure sine wave. Not all items will run on the less expensive modified sine wave type - such as units with a digital clock where the appliance is looking for the intersection of the power curve with the "0" axis. A modified sine wave inverter power curve is squared off and "pauses" at zero.
Also, when running off a battery source, look at the power factor of any AC to DC conversion. For example, a computer power block (in the AC power cord) has about a 50% power factor. That means you will need to input twice as much DC power to the AC power cord as needed per the DC power rating (if it is a 45 watt laptop, you will need to supply the AC inverter 90 watts).

I was thinking the same thing as far as the setup, and just using the GFI and no breaker. It's really just for the "charger"

Also My mast IS grounded to my keel boat (came that way, dunno if thats good or bad)....nothing else is grounded to that wire however....if that matters


Yes you are right on inverters being DC to AC....so maybe on RVs its a "converter"? I dunno....I've never heard it called a "charger"....it converts A/C power to DC for the campers system..also expect to be corrected... As far as the Wave most we prob use is the coffee maker prob and it doesn't care

Our boat is setup for boondocking, so staying 12v is best anyway....just thought a single A/C outlet would be a nice luxury where it could be employed.