repower

[Divecoz]

$30.00 for a nut with a Zerk fitting installed??? What does the inside of that nut look like ???? Any other machining evident?
Pictures???? of the nut????

[aya16]

you got it, it looks like a normal Nylock someone drilled and tapped and put a Zerk fitting in, but they have been selling them for 20 some years, I met the guy that started them at a boat show 20 some years ago, I bought one from him then, all my boats have had them since. 30 bucks? I know but the way I do projects it would cost me 50 to make.

Motor is here finally, While waiting I kept doing stuff to get ready and have basically de rigged the whole engine on the mac so far, all the gauges and wires, remote controller, striped her down. I went and saw the dealer today and hes swamped with boats in his yard now, I have to wait a couple days to get the mac over to him. Its this weather, 80 plus degrees everyone wants to get their boat ready for the season now. Why couldnt it be raining like when I first ordered the engine? No problem as the more I do, the less he makes, Thats what I told him today, give him an incentive to park all those other boats in the street till mines done. Hes already down 450.00 from what I have done already. Dont worry I said it nice and we were joking about it, Im not that stupid to pi$$ off some one about to install a motor on my boat. Besides I have changed my mind about 80 times as to how I want it and what color gauges and stuff. Last big change was to use the new fiberglass console, so all the steering will have to come out too.
As well as the stainless 2 inch pipe getting cut down to 5-6 inches above the deck. I think a metal cut off wheel (big one) will cut it, but thats his worry now.

By the way, steering whats the best mechanical steering? We have the rack steering in our boats, and it looks like the new console can take the round one, are the round ones better? tighter, less slop, easy steering? No feedback steering is that any good? If he has to take the old one out I might as well replace it with something better...But I have no idea whats better.

Mike

[extreem]

I would like to see some photos of your progress. I am considering a motor upgrade and would like to see some of the things you are doing. Transom reinforcements, etc.. Sounds like you are having fun with it! Keep the posts coming.

[aya16]

extreem, you know I never thought about taking pix's. Ill get some when I go to the boat again.
some people use metal to reinforce the transom, I filled the inside transom with wood, plywood 3\4 doubled. then used aluminum pieces to shore up where the bolts go through over that. Now I have to paint it so I can take pix's

Its fun, but with me as time to do the job gets longer I start coming up with more ideas and my brain starts to hurt thinking about it all the time. Much better for me if the engine was in stock and the dealer jumped on it the same day. Im also dealing with two boats at the same time. The whaler is easy to rig except some of the new parts wont work right and I have to come up with a solution other than spend lots of money getting different parts, things like the shift control, I have to build a small box to house it, as the whaler is set up for one of the all in one controllers.

I also dont like being up against a time line, when I started the project, I thought I had a week to test the motor and reinstall all my little stuff like the mapping gps, new compass, auto pilot, lights in the new console as well as upgrade some wiring. Looks like Ill only have a day or so to do that.

The new engine, although brand new and under warranty, is still an engine, breaking it in on a long trip isnt my first choice, but plans were made, days off scheduled, and its a go. In the end I do look back and get lots of satisfaction from it, but as the day I bought the mac its on ongoing project. When do the projects and up grades stop? I also wanted time to test props for the best performance, but now Ill bring a couple props with me on the trip to change as I need too.

Pix's would save a lot of words thats for sure, but like training my dogs, I cant plant birds, work the dogs, carry a shotgun, work the remote to the bird launcher, and clean up the style of the dog, and carry a camera to take pix's, although I do sometimes, its very difficult, same with the mac, hand full of tools, 5200 all over the place, cutting the right areas, and then take pix's, but I will get some.

Today I stay home and get the controller, I took out of the mac to work for the whaler, It has to be reversed so it throws on the right side now instead of the left, A housing has to be made for it, I will also try and rig all the wires and gauges taken off the mac to the whaler. So when the engine is removed from the mac, Fri. maybe, and bolted to the whaler its plug and play. Then the prop tests start again, Im starting with a 11 1\2 by 15 inch pitch on that one.

I am having fun with it though, what motor are you looking at, for your up grade? My top choices for a motor for the mac

60-90 eteck, if you have the dealer support near by

merc 75-115 again with dealer support near by

In the 4 stroke, none. Any one interested, my dealer has a merc 90hp 4 stroke in his show room for around 4900, it looks new but I dont know the story, but Ill find out if anyone's interested. Its about ten pounds heavier then the optimax 90.
Mike

[Hardcrab]

Hey Mike,
We can take it easy and motor sail over to Cat if you'd feel more comfortable with that.
I know I would if it was my new motor.
We don't mind at all going slower.
Don't shortchange the break-in stuff on your new motor.

Let's motor sail over about 6-7 knots.
All you have to do is say yeah, lets.
Bill and Sue

[seahouse]

Hey Mike -

Speaking of engine break-in - not as important with newer engines as it was in days gone by, but here's a good link that anyone breaking in a new engine might want to be aware of. It's been around for years.

http://mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Lends some science to the art.

- Brian.

[aya16]

ahhh bill if I wanted to do 6-7 knots I would have kept the suz on it!!!!!!! Just kidding. Get this, the motor has a 60 amp alt. so I can bring my electric drill, use my converter and we can drill all kinds of holes in the boat at the island. All I have to do is run the engine.

I know to put a load on the engine to break it in Ill tow two macs over to the island, we can raft up side to side me in the middle and Ill be the only one running the engine.

depends on the seas but the dealer said the first two hours I need to vary the speed from fast idle to 3/4, then I can do what ever I want after that as long as I dont stay in the same rpm range very long for the first ten hours. The main thing for me was the smoking two stroke thing on the way over to the island because it burns double oil the first ten hours. I like seahouse's link, too. The only engine I actually followed to a tee break in was the suz, maybe I made a slug out of it??? Im taking the boat out the same day I get it back for a few hours before we go to Catalina, we should be fine at any speed going over.

Made my control box for the whaler yesterday, came out pretty good I think. found this neat paint at lowes, its a spray paint that when dries gives a dimple look, So I actually made wood look like plastic. Sounds strange, most people paint plastic to look like wood....The neat thing about the box is I can practicly wire the whole engine right in that box the only wire going to the dash is the computer gauge and the tack.
A new all in one controller cost 300 bucks, I was able to make my box for 250.00, wow saved 50 bucks and it only took all day. The big cost was buying some new tools to finish it up. Some times I think its best to just break down and buy what you need instead of making it, seems It almost always cost as much and the time doing it Is enormous. But then it wouldnt be as much fun either.

Well one more day working on the whaler today and then back over to the mac to finish up fri.. Lower the mast and maybe tow it to the dealer. If I catch one of you guys over at the mast up fri. Ill get some help taking the suz off the mac.
Mike

[Gazmn]

Aya,

While I know you're well on your way with this project, and I'm very happy and psyched for you, I wanted you to know as an E-tec owner, I think you made the right choice with going with a Merc. While I like my engine and the conveniences it brings, after talking with some experts on MY dime, I've come to appreciate the torque that the Merc can bring to the table.

This isn't sour grapes on my part. I'm a proud E-tec owner However, as an owner and lover of bringing everything along, I may have overcome my torque capabilities.

I Wish You Well,

Wail on Sky Dog !

[aya16]

Thanks gaz, My first choice was the eteck, The 90 seemed perfect for what I wanted, but sadly the evinrude dealerships are few and far between here, let alone getting one that was white in a reasonable time frame, plus the added 1000 bucks. Those little power houses in the 60hp eteck, I see bolted on most of the Macs in the mast up storage, are about half the physical size of my suz 50 and run circles around my mac. They seem to be made for the mac. I havent heard one complaint about them.

The suz is on its new home now, I finished the major install Saturday on the whaler, just some little touch up stuff Ill finish Sunday. I guess I wired it right cause it fired right up, and all five gauges work.

The merc, is scheduled early Monday morning for its install, I probably should have run all the wires and cut the pedestal myself to get a head start, but the dealer said it will only take him a day to install it, so I give him 3 days, you know how things go. Some things I have noticed after pulling the suz off. One, the transom gelcoat really takes a beating where the engine (any engine) sits all the way down the transom there are bite marks from the engine up against the transom, I have cut some plate aluminum to go there now on the outside. I noticed on "tropico" ( X mac, Tims boat) at the mast up, has a nice stainless plate on his transom, good idea. Anyone buying a new mac should consider this just to protect the outside of the transom.

The second thing was how easy it was to un-install the suz, all the wires, battery wires, and the cables are really easy to get out or in for that matter, some of the stuff installed on my boat from the previous installer were kinda shabby though, Those that have an eye for detail buying a new mac, should consider doing an engine install themselves, or making sure the installer knows you really want a clean install. save some money, and two guys can knock it out pretty fast and do a cleaner job.

5200, cant stress the importance of that stuff in the bolt holes through the transom, Its what makes it water proof. Mine had just a little bit around the bolts, hardly enough to do the job. If those that dont have that white messy stuff oozed around the large washer inside your boat may not have enough, speaking of bolts, mine were missing a few large washer, only one of my bolts (of 4) had a large washer, thats hard on the transom too. If I didnt do this new install, I bet my boat would have started leaking some latter, It would have been minor, but the problem would have been rotting of the ply wood mac uses for transom support.

Getting to know your mac, saves lots of time and repairs later, the engine install on the mac's were very well thought out, and really not very complicated at all, theres no big surprises, and if I had to point to what would be the hardest thing to do, would be pulling the wire harness into the pedestal on the older boats, that two inch stainless pipe doesnt have enough room to pull the big 1 1/4 inch connector plug from the merk engine up to the console head with out taking the rack steering out first, main reason I switched to the new pedestal, much easier to deal with. I was going to switch the pedestal anyway some day, but the thing that held me back was the steering having to come out to do it, It has to come out now any way so switch it is.

Anyway windy as heck at MDR today, would have been some reefed up sailing If I had gone out. Moving the suz over to the whaler went ok, but that b...h about killed me, man is it heavy, and nothing to grab hold of, so I used a floor jack to jack it off the mac, and balanced it on the jack as Karen pulled it along slowly to the whaler, about 7 feet away, jacked it up on the whaler and centered it, bolted it up. Plugged in all the wires and cables I already installed, and varroom, its done. Have to give the suz its do, backing it down into the launch ramp to test everything (left it on the trailer) when it started, and not having that big echo chamber, like on the mac, I couldnt hear the suz motor running, I actually had to look at the tack to make sure. It is quiet. Im going to put a curtain in front of the mac driver seat, for the dogs and for the sound.

Im going to be staying in the short term slips at MDR Wed- Thursday, if all goes well, any one around stop by, have a couple beers. White mac, black engine that breaths fire, name of the boat is "A GUST A"
Mike

ohh havent heard any opinions about a new steering system, you guys have any experiance with, other then what we have in our boats?? Need to know before monday.

[Bobby T.-26X #4767]

Some things I have noticed after pulling the suz off. One, the transom gelcoat really takes a beating where the engine (any engine) sits all the way down the transom there are bite marks from the engine up against the transom, I have cut some plate aluminum to go there now on the outside.

my '02X w/ original Suzi50 came with a hard plastic 1/4" pad between the motor and transom. that's generally standard operating procedure.

also, be aware that you may need a larger/more amp'd battery to crank the 2-stroke.
additionally, when i re-powered to the large 2-stroke i had to increase the size of the cables from battery to motor (the small diameter ones used for the Suzi50 got real hot when i cranked up in the morning).

i re-powered to a 90 Tohatsu in Jan '05. it's been bullet proof!
if i was doing it today i would prob go to the Honda V-Tech 90 (360#). at the time of my re-power the only other option was the 360# Suzi 60/70. the Suzi90/115 is over 400#.

sounds like you'll be happy w/ your purchase.

Bob T.
"DāBob"
'02X w/ '04 90-TLDI (14" x 11 pitch)
Dinghy Motor: '06 2.5-Suzuki

[aya16]

Well Bobby Ill ask about a pad, maybe they have something like that, its on my list of request special stuff from the installer. I did make some aluminum plates as well as some special mounts for the new console. Well the engine choice is real hard, from eteck, to honda, 4 stroke to 2 stroke. When I went to the dealer to buy the motor, he has a brand new 2 year old 4 stroke merc 90 in the show room that had a price of 4200, I was really tempted, as he had to order my engine. The honda I dont know much about, most people seem to either love them or hate them. Weight in the past would make me pass on them.
Honda makes great cars and engines and from what I read the 90 is almost the same engine in one of their cars. In the 50 hp class honda will be the last choice for me on the mac, the first choice is the 60 e tec
what a super little power house. But the new 90 honda I just read about looks pretty good. Buying a mac , people should consider whats best, engine wise, for the mac. getting into the two stroke four stroke thing will limit people one way ot the other. Always look to whats best for the boat. That 50 suz I just changed, is and ideal motor for the whaler I just put it on. But it was a sad motor for the mac in the situation I wanted it for. But then could be ideal for others that have other demands on their boats. So all that has to be takin into consideration when you pick a motor. Not just what the dealer sells.

Did I pick the best engine for the mac, well no, I think for my wants a 75- 90 would be just about right, and a two stroke. I had my heart set on the 90 etec. But this pretty little girl dressed in all black came to me wearing a badge of 115 that had the same figure and measurements of her little sister's 90 and 75. Plus I have had merc's my whole life and Im really happy with them.


4 stroke-2 stroke can be debated till the cows come home, and the 4 stroke people would win every time a few years ago. Not any more the new generation two strokes are very fine engines with a lot less bulk.
That e tec 60 will blow away all the four strokes, and it does it with two cylinders and a very small package. Any one considering a new mac, and the salesman tells you that the four stroke is the way to go, Needs to do some study about it some.

Battery power should be ok, I took out the OG cables so they can use the cables that came with the motor, my understanding is they are long enough stock.
I use two deep cycle/start battery's , cranking amps are down some from regular starting batteries, but I use two to start any way. But good point Ill try and start with one, if it doesnt cut it Ill get a better battery for that. A long weekend running 12 volt off one battery, and Im stuck if I need two to start the new motor, so good thought.

Which brings up another thing, I have had since the boat was new a trickle charger installed in the boat, that thing is worthless, at 3 amps split between two batteries I would still have a dead battery after months of no use, even though the boat was plugged into power the whole time. So bass pro sells some water proof 15 amp constant chargers Ill install, that gives 7 and a half amps each battery.

Gauges in the new console, so far just a flush mount compass will be put in it, and some courtesy lights with a switch box (things Ill do) the tack will be in the bulk head next to the cabin hatch. I dont need a trim gauge or a volt gauge (volt,have one already installed inside the cabin) The merc tack, is a computer read out of all the engine functions, oil level, heat, constant engine diagnoses things like that.

Lots of little stuff to think about and do, wanting it just right so no problems later. One of the things I did was, all the support, even the wood has rounded corners, no sharp corners, even the mounts for the new console. Sharp edges will cut fiberglass up pretty good over time as well as bare feet and things like that.

The aluminum plate on top of the transom under the engine that came with the mac just fell off when I took the suz engine off, it should have been glued down, Im putting a much thicker piece on instead, with lots of 5200. I have a love- hate relationship with 5200 now.

Im going to try and be there for most of the install, some things are real important to me, like the throttle position in neutral, the shifter needs to be pointed at the drivers seat , not straight up like some have. That way the throttle is easier to use when seated, those that have the throttle straight up and want to change the position let me know Its easy. This wont work on standard control boxes, only the remote after market throttle's. The standard ones you have to mount, up and down instead of fore and aft. Im not sure how the merc remote throttle works so I want to make sure its installed right.

Hope the next post is, impressions of the new installed engine.
Mike

[aya16]

Boats in the shop, whaler's done and got my fingers crossed for getting the mac back Thursday after noon. Ill bring my lap top to Catalina to post impressions of the motor, as thats where its going to get broke in.
Massive amounts of wires on the whaler compared to the old two stroke that came off. I ended up rewiring the whole whaler as it was easier than trying to figure what wire went to what, light, switch, gauge.

The mac is presenting its own problems to the dealer with me wanting the new console and not wanting to take the old console pedestal out, just cut it. But the dealer is a trooper and says he can do it.
Any way more up dates later, hopefully from the island.
Mike

[aya16]

Its here the long awaited report on the new 115 merc. Sadly I didnt get the boat back in time to enjoy with my friends some of catalina's finest. But plenty of trips to be had this summer.

So what do I think of the new motor?

Cons:
Its huge, weight wise its ok but its massive in size, anyone thinking of going this route Remember the 75-90-115 are the same motor. Instead of getting a powerful 75 size wise, in a 115, your actually getting a detuned 115. It does fit the boat, and will clear everything turning one way or the other, barely.

Lots of torque means lots of steering fight to the left, but I found trimming up some makes the steering very manageable. I also havent played with the little fin tab on the bottom of the engine yet.

Black paint, the cowl is beautiful black, with its own sticker warning that a dry cloth will scratch it. Let alone all the everyday things it will encounter. Only thing I can do is put a ton of wax on it to try and protect it.

Trim all the way up and you damage the cowl and the mac, I knew this would be a problem going into it, so I just have to be careful.

everything is run by a computer, I mean everything. It tells you the temp, the water pressure, the volts, how much gas you have used and at the second millage you get, just to name a few.
It also tells on you if you abuse the engine, almost like giving your kid the hotline number to child abuse, and they call on you because you sent them to their room without dinner.
The whole life of the engine running is stored in the computer, the dealer can access at any time. If you bring it in for warranty work, merc requires the PCM readout be sent to them.

13 inch prop, not what it needs, (I have) It will over rev the engine even with a full ballast tank and that was at almost 26 mph.
Dont worry I didnt take it past redline, and break in requires short burst of full throttle at times. We had small craft warnings and the seas were up a bit too.
So maybe a 14-15 inch pitch, or maybe the engine would be a great trial for a 4 blade prop?

Mike

[aya16]

part two the pro's:

when trimmed up, it clears the drivers seat enough to get the prop out of the water for sailing, only thing in the water is an inch or two of the skeg.

It sounds nice, has a nice throaty two stroke sound, and I think its actually has less sound then the suz at mid to upper rpm.

Even in break in mode I saw no smoke or smelled it, (the computer for the first ten hours runs lots of oil through the engine)

It scoots, cant get past that one, it does 14 mph at 3000 rpm with a full ballast tank. Thats tops for the suz. I would be doing a disservice If I didnt say it flat picks the mac up and goes without breaking a sweat.
In fact thats exactly what it does in heavy chop, trim the engine up and the bow doesnt plow as much, you can actually feel the bow rise, and rpm and speed increase as you do it. I backed the throttle down at that point.

The boat stayed the same at rest, being bow heavy, nothing changed, its still bow heavy for sailing. I cant tell the difference, before and after.

you can actually steer the boat as well now with the rudders up and the dagger board up, the engine has enough power to move the boat around very well with out all the help docking and such.
This was with the ballast tank full all day, I didnt run without ballast because the seas were not kind today.

Theres no doubt about whos in charge with this engine, it will move the mac around where ever you point it with authority, The suz didnt have that.

These are a few impressions for a 3 hour tour, some tweaking, and some clean up, and some prop testing, yet to come. Plus I need to get used to the new motor. Right away I noticed and felt the difference
and so did the dogs, diff. sound, diff vibration, I like it but I have to get used to it, so do the dogs.

would I recommend this motor to others? sadly no, I think the amount of tweaking and loss of space in the back, would bother some. I still think the mac needs more power than the 50hp recommended.
But There are some other choices where the physical size is smaller then the merc and will do a great job. I like the engine and think it will do for me what I want, But the Mac has pretty much changed to a real motor sailer now, and theres no mistaking the engine for a pusher, thats for sure. Some may like the look and Im ok with it, as long as it sails about what I always have. But you certainly know there is a serious engine on the back of The mac. Pix's to come

Mike

[beene]

Sounds great Mike

Congrats!

I would go with the 14x15. I have a 14x11 and 14x13 Turning Point Hustler props.

I use the 14x11 for water skiing, and the 13 for everything else.

With regards to the pull to the left, Moe emailed me with info on that one. Common issue with boats. If she is pulling either way, you need to tilt the motor up or down to put the helm into balance. As you have already discovered. Mine pulls to the left when fully trimmed in, so I just trim up to put everything in balance. Problem is, I loose speed, can't see over the bow from the helm seat, increase spray, starts pushing water instead of planing, when I trim up to balance the helm.

I never had a 50 before my 75 monster, as you pointed out she is big back there. My first motor I used was a 7.5 Honda with tiller steering. I did not notice any change in sailing performance going from the wee 7.5 to the massive 75.

As you have mentioned, with the bigger motor and all that torque, the boat is completely under control of the motor. When you say woe, she stops dead, when you want to go, she's gone! I just love coming into my slip at a fairly good clip, hitting rev hard for a sec, you better be sitting down, cause if you're not, you soon will be..... LOL.

Ciao

G