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Boating, and hence PFD use, begins for us when we exit the car at the ramp or dock. On anchor we remove them, otherwise, they go back on - even for a tender ride to the beach for swimming.

Catigale wrote:

I couldn't get my lifejacket on

Sooooo whats Ur point !!! he had his flippers On

J

Ummm, yea.
Point: If you can push any part of the hull or deck in with your mere human muscles, its not "stout"
Point: Macgregors and offshore should not be used in the same sentence, ever. Unless its at least 60 feet.
Point: The Gulf of Mexico is different then deep ocean
Point: A squall or thunderstorm is different then a sustained blow, like a front, or cyclone.
Point: Nothing about the Mac Powersailor was designed to be seakindly under extreme conditions. She wont lie ahull safely, she wont be safe dragging warps, assuming she would behave herself while running, she wont carry enough sail to effectively heave-too, and if her manners at anchor are anything like her behavior on a sea anchor would be, well just the thought of it is enough to make me wet myself. Where does that leave you in 50 knots winds and confused 15-20 foot seas? I am sure I dont know, but I do know I never want to be there on this boat.
Ix

Ummm..., Ditto.

If I read it properly the storm came up from nowhere, so it could have been glass calm then within a few min got out of hand. As for jackets off at anchor I do the same but food for thought…a lot of people here drown here for that very same reason, a 4-5 kt current at anchor is very common and it doesn't take long at that speed to get far enough from a stationary boat in the day light, let alone in the dark; And even if you have a windlass it's still gonna be a min or two before you get the anchor up, engine on, boat turned around ect. ect. then find the person if they're still above water. Up here in that two min, most people are already dead.
This happened to a fisherman here last year who happened to be a good friend of my mothers; Except they were pulling nets (which is more or less just like being at anchor). His daughter was with him and watched him go overboard right beside her. There was nothing she could do as the current took him, and then she had to pilot the boat five hours alone back to port. Last October a shrimp boat was headed from Skagway to Haines and a fisherman went overboard with his lifejacket on but he was dead before they got him back in the boat. I guess sometimes it really doesn't matter.

When I sail Lake Erie in April May, I tell people the lake (40F) is essentially battery acid. If you go in, you die.

In the Yukon, I woud think PFDs and tieing off would be mandatory procedure at anchor

The situations and current Yukon Bob is talking about are in Alaska in the ocean. Its all fresh water sailing here in Yukon and no current (unless you head down the Yukon River or drag your boat across the boarder to Skagway like Bob does) Yes the water is mostly cold in Yukon lakes and you wouldn't want to be in the water for too long but your survival rate time will depend on how much body fat you have. No I don't tie myself to the boat and wear a pfd at anchor. I do however use a floater jacket when underway. As to the main topic here, I would not take these boats in blue water. My boat is maxing out when the gusts are pushing to 30kts and the waves are getting over 4' in the lakes we sail here. Get a keel boat for the blue stuff.

When we first got the boat it was Halloween, Marsh Lake was still open so we put her in and powered across to our cabin in those 30 and 4's except the spray was freezing to everything!
Put the boat back in Marsh last week to sit in some fresh water til I winterize it, and plan to do some good lake sailing before the seasons done. Most everything is out and shes bare bones but should get some good footage with the wind we've been having. Last time I sailed on marsh we were beating into a good 25-30kt wind with stacked 4 fts and managed to get half the boat out of the water with a buddy who is from the prairies and had never been sailing (although he does whitewater kayak with me) He actually tried to grab the main sheet from me at one point cause I told him that it was the 'brakes' lol

Catigale wrote:

I couldn't get my lifejacket on

My life jacket is a vest type , I couldn't let go of the wheel to put my arms thru it .

Yet another storm our took us safely thru .

Last Year , we were on a cruise around the northern end of the Gulf . Hurricane Isaac was coming up so we decided to turn around and head for our home river , The Alabama River .

On a beautiful Sunday afternoon we crossed Mobile Bay from east to west . The wind was just right and we had full sail , everything was perfect .
We pulled into Dog River marina for the night . that night we sat on the dock and watched all the yachts coming in from all sorts of exotic places , running from the hurricane .

Next morning we pulled out to make that last 10 mile run north to the Port of Mobile and the safety of the river.

The bay had turned into a monster overnight ! Mobile bay is shallow and they say it whips up in a hurry , I think they were right .
We were fighting an unbelievable head wind ! The bow of our Mac would bury itself , while the engine would come out of the water screaming !
I have two anchors mounted on the bow of the boat , pretty soon , when the bow would bury itself we were hearing a familiar noise but couldn't figure out what it was . After a while , with horror , we figured out what the noise was . It was chain coming out of the anchor locker ! The anchor in the roller had deployed , slowly came out and wrapped itself around our keel . I had the keel down , hoping to help stabilize the boat .
I couldn't pull the anchor back in nor could I raise the keel and it was way to rough to go in the water.
We ended up doing the last 5 miles or so with our anchor dangling from our keel . I pulled up on some federal island with a sign that basically said 'shot on sight' dived over the side and unwrapped the anchor from the keel .

Once again , we were in a bad situation , that our pulled us thru with very little damage . The anchor chain rubbed the gelcoat off the side of the boat . I had to recoat a place on her side when we got home.
Once again our boat proved what a stout ship she is. Do I recommend running against a hurricane ? H&LL No ! It was an error in my judgement of when the storm was going to hit , so I screwed up , but our Mac forgave me and brought us home safely , any way .

You know, perhaps you want to think about putting yourself in those situations.

Three Gypsies wrote: Next morning we pulled out to make that last 10 mile run north to the Port of Mobile and the safety of the river.

The bay had turned into a monster overnight ! Mobile bay is shallow and they say it whips up in a hurry , I think they were right .
We were fighting an unbelievable head wind ! The bow of our Mac would bury itself , while the engine would come out of the water screaming !
I have two anchors mounted on the bow of the boat , pretty soon , when the bow would bury itself we were hearing a familiar noise but couldn't figure out what it was . After a while , with horror , we figured out what the noise was . It was chain coming out of the anchor locker ! The anchor in the roller had deployed , slowly came out and wrapped itself around our keel . I had the keel down , hoping to help stabilize the boat .
I couldn't pull the anchor back in nor could I raise the keel and it was way to rough to go in the water.
We ended up doing the last 5 miles or so with our anchor dangling from our keel . I pulled up on some federal island with a sign that basically said 'shot on sight' dived over the side and unwrapped the anchor from the keel .

Y'know, I keep hearing this "don't want to be on the Mac in blue water" repeated...but there's something else to consider here. (Ixneigh, I realize you live down in my old stomping grounds, and you have a lot of experience on the Mac on the Atlantic side, and a lot of sailing experience overall, as do most of you. So none of this is to negate the overall perspective that has been offered so far.)
My experience is in various size power boats, not sailing the Mac, so this is mostly a correlation to other boats I've been on.
While I can see that it would not be comfortable, nor would it be pleasant, nor desirable to be on one of our beloved Macs in high, confused seas with high winds, something to think about is where you want to be in relation to the water.
A big, heavy-keeled, blue-water boat is the right choice if you're trying to make headway and can move through the waves, and more importantly, as long as you're on top of the water. But you capsize a heavy keelboat, and they'll compete with submarines for "who gets to the bottom first"!
Our little bleach-bottles-with-motors may not be "nice" on heavy seas, but it seems to me I'd rather have a boat that tries to stay on TOP of the water, rather than having a propensity for sinking when swamped... I mean, take a really big wave over the transom...yeah, we have a lot of water to deal with, but "sinking" is not the most likely first concern on a Mac...but on a keelboat? Absolutely.
So just another perspective, mostly from being around smaller, lightweight power boats mixed with a couple larger heavy power boats. Sure the bigger boats are more stable and have more room and take the seas better...but the little ones I was around just didn't want to sink...not necessarily a bad thing.
Just a thought.

Three Gypsies wrote:

Catigale wrote:

I couldn't get my lifejacket on

My life jacket is a vest type , I couldn't let go of the wheel to put my arms thru it .

Let me see
unable to get pfd on !!, lost anchor & rode overboard !!, storm came up outa nowhere !!, Yet again another storm our mac got us through !! Yes I guess I screwed up again !!
let me see weather station monitor @ all times the use ur gut feeling no matter what they say if it don't feel right getta heck outa there or don't go , planned trip schedule , safety gear departure inspection list , radio check , supplies in cabin all secured !! , sh-t does happen from time to time but when it's happening all the time u need to be re-accessing ur thought & sailing skills , boat inspection procedures, should not be getting caught in that many incidents, & the only thing that should be sliding around in the cockpit is the beer cooler that way the beer cans slide around & break up the ice cubes so as u can have ice in ur Scotch chaser

J

Sounds like Gypsies using his boat to the best of his abilities

Not certain how significant this is but?
The for Europe meets CE category C
INSHORE: Designed for voyages in coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes and rivers where conditions up to, and including, wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to, and including, 2m may be experienced.

To meet cat C an must have the following modifications done to the standard factory build.
Manual Bilge pump
Stern Pulpits
Modified Lifelines
Stern Swim Ladder
Extra Deck Grab Rails
Modified wiring and additional latches in cabin.

Would I like to sail in 30 knots of wind with 6 foot waves? I have once in 5 years of owning the boat lesson learnt
The boat handled it fine, but after a couple of hours hand steering I was exhausted, any more than a couple dozen miles from a safe harbour without sufficient crew who can steer or reliable self steering to relieve you and fatigue will be the killer.

Bluewater what is bluewater? If meaning extended offshore cruising then yes I agree these are not your boat. If meaning going off shore into deep water day sailing or overnighting between harbours in a good weather window then why not with the right fit out and safety gear.

I would rather be 10-20 miles out in deep water riding an easy 6 foot ocean swell than in shore beating against 2-3 foot tidal chop in a protected bay or shallow coastal waters anyday.

The next big question is what the heck is Inshore or Coastal as I have seen various definitions from 6-25 miles out to in sight of land.