MacGregorSailors.com

BOAT wrote:Hey Bean!!

I have a hard time about the 750 bucks on the rudders, I really want to be convinced - I will buy them too - do they really really work? It sounds like such a great thing! I wonder why no one has ever mentioned super duper rudders for the MAC before. I WANT super duper rudders but only if they really are SUPER and DUPER!

Will they make 'boat' go faster in all tacks or is there any pro's or cons?

What's the catch? What do I have to give up on the performance side to get the benefits of these rudders? It sounds too good to be true. I have contacted the rudder guy in the website and I sent an email to Todd and his wife at BWY too - I want to know why they are holding out on us if there is a really improved rudder for the MAC.

Thanks for telling me about it - I had no idea there was a better rudder for the MAC than the one we have.

The IDA rudders have been talked about quite a bit here over the years...
http://www.macgregorsailors.com/forum/search.php

Leon had a couple sets
Highlander and I bought them at the same time
Others on this site have them as well

From my experience on my M with and without them...
I was having issues with the boat rounding up more than normal
Had issues pointing higher
Following seas were very difficult to manage
Sloppy control at slow speeds

When I swapped to the IDA rudders
All of the above improved
Not perfect, but again, this is a Mac and I do not expect perfection from it as such, just good enough for me

keep in mind When Highlander and I bought them, they were half the cost they are now

Yes, the cost is a bit - I have talked to a few MAC dealers now and so far the scoop on these is that they are heavy - that seems to be the deal - a heavy rudder will indeed out perform a light rudder - the main reason the MAC has a wobbly helm is the light weight rudders - if you do not get the fore and aft balance just perfect they will wander -
A balanced rudder should be able to skull forward just slightly, (you can move the tiller rapidly back and forth when lying still in zero wind and calm water and make the boat move forward).

Long ago I made sure the rudders on boat were not getting too much pressure on the forward part of the rudder - you need to set the rudders so there is just a slight bit more pressure aft of the shaft then there is forward of the shaft. I was lucky, the factory tune was almost perfect. That will make the rudder track a bit better and also firm up the helm a little. That's what I do and I have no problems pointing or holding course even with no hands on the wheel, BUT! and it's a big butt!

A following sea will kill me! The waves hitting the back of the boat will try to turn the rudder and because it's so light I must hold the helm in a following sea.

I still have not found an answer to that issue yet but a real heavy rudder would make that problem a LOT less worse.

I need to think about whether or not I really want to add more weight to 'boat' - it's a thought - I might consider it. My personal opinion: the rudder plates need to be modified (reinforced) even for the stock rudder so I would be looking for something to mod that before I even consider the heavy rudder, but the idea does have merit.
If I were on Highlanders rig I would DEFINITELY go for the heavy rudder - his boat would need it for sure.

I think it is not necessarily the weight, as I am not sure they weigh any more than the stock ones
Stock are fiberglass
IDA are solid plastic from what I can tell

I think the difference is more in the thickness

The stock ones are longer, thinner and rounded at the bottom

IDA rudders are thicker, making for more lift, like an airplane wing adding slots/slats/flaps
They are shorter and straight across at the bottom

For lager image to see detail better...
Follow this link and click on the magnify button bottom right 2 times

http://s166.photobucket.com/user/beene_ ... ort=2&o=49

http://s166.photobucket.com/user/beene_ ... ort=2&o=50

So far the word i get is that the aftermarket rudders make really good improvements to boats earlier than the MACM boat, but that the improvement is only slightly detectable on the M.

I guess the M stock rudder had pretty much pushed as far as you can go with a hollow rudder.

Okay, new rudders are a maybe at this point. I think an auto-helm is what I want more. Rudders can come later I guess. I still have not found a good auto-helm that does not make the wheel look like a bagel. - I suppose a tiller type auto-helm might do it, but I'm still looking.

BOAT wrote:So far the word i get is that the aftermarket rudders make really good improvements to boats earlier than the MACM boat, but that the improvement is only slightly detectable on the M.

I guess the M stock rudder had pretty much pushed as far as you can go with a hollow rudder.

Okay, new rudders are a maybe at this point. I think an auto-helm is what I want more. Rudders can come later I guess. I still have not found a good auto-helm that does not make the wheel look like a bagel. - I suppose a tiller type auto-helm might do it, but I'm still looking.

Single most recommended add on to my Mac has been my Raymarine autopilot

Absolutely love it

Has changed what sailing my M is all about

You are still very much involved in the sailing of the boat, but you get to focus on other aspects of it more than if you are keeping a course as well

BOAT wrote: I still have not found a good auto-helm that does not make the wheel look like a bagel.

Yes, this is my complaint as well. The autopilot wheel attached to the small Mac wheel makes it look silly. Bagel, that's funny.
Tiller pilots don't like to be forced when not engaged.

I guess Vic has something he's testing that is inside the pedestal. Any word on when he will have a marketable product? Any clue how to find out more?

I would love to have it all in the pedestal, but I can't find anything.

So far the best thing I can find is a tiller push-rod that attaches to the steering cross-arm below decks, but I would still need to make a solenoid operated catch system to disconnect it from the boat without crawling into the aft berth.

I dunno, I'll keep looking.

RussMT wrote:

BOAT wrote: I still have not found a good auto-helm that does not make the wheel look like a bagel.

Yes, this is my complaint as well. The autopilot wheel attached to the small Mac wheel makes it look silly. Bagel, that's funny.
Tiller pilots don't like to be forced when not engaged.

I guess Vic has something he's testing that is inside the pedestal. Any word on when he will have a marketable product? Any clue how to find out more?

I don't think it looks bad at all.....

beene wrote:
I don't think it looks bad at all.....

Is that a stock wheel. Your right, doesn't look that bad.

Others I've seen look bulky

I'm sorry guys, I just don't like it - it's just a preference that's all. I know it must be a good design or a big company like Raymarine would not be making it that way. It's just me, I am the problem, not the Raymarine "bagel" helm as I like to call it.

Believe it or not the helm on 'boat' is so easy to steer that I usually only use the hub in the middle of the wheel to make turns and adjust course - there is no play in the steering and it words really good and I just hate to load all that stuff up on a wheel house that is working so great for me now. The only time I ever need to grab the outside of the wheel with my whole hand is when I am in a following sea because the wave make my rudders want to move. I could hook up a hydraulic dampener for following sea conditions or maybe just drop the motor in the water and let 'boat' drag it along in the water to help the rudders with more weight and steering - really that's an issue I need to research -

Heck, the dampening action of a tiller pilot just might be the key to controlling the rudders in a following sea. (?)

As it is now, the only thing I can consider is a tiller pilot, and I have not found one yet.

Boat: Raymarine SPX-5R. No bagel.

Or PM vkmaynard. His in-helm autopilot is nearing production.

RussMT wrote:Is that a stock wheel. Your right, doesn't look that bad.

No, it is a 22 I believe

I never liked the stock wheel, too small for my liking

in this short vid right @ the beginning u can see the Ida Sailor Rudders on Beene"s u'll notice they r wider also , if u listen to the rest of the vid u'll here me giving Beene some well deserved constructive advise LOL
http://s235.photobucket.com/user/maccut ... 1.mp4.html

J

here's what my Ida Sailor Rudders look like
http://i844.photobucket.com/albums/ab1/ ... 4300bf.jpg

J