MacGregorSailors.com

mastreb wrote:5) Because it's light, it won't make it through a tack on momentum. You must backwind the jib to get the boat across the wind, and then tack the jib once you've arrived on your new heading. With practice this can be done quickly, but you do lose a bit more momentum because you can't tack while turning.

I try not to revive an older thread on principle, but I was just trolling through some of the past conversations when I stumbled on this jewel and blew coffee out my nose.

A Mac X sails fine and does not have said problem. If you are having issues tacking, then you are probably doing something wrong. First - Take the person who taught you to sail out back and beat the snot out of them. Then try doing it correctly.

When tacking the standard command to the crew is "Helm's A-Lee". What this signifies is that the helmsman has THROWN the helm HARD over to the leeward side of the boat. What that means on a boat with a wheel helm is that you spin that wheel. Leave the jib sheets lashed as they are until they start to back on their own, then just release the cleat. DO NOT force the issue by tightening them in on the other side too soon, doing so will slow your progress and could stall your tack. The jib will first back and then luff as it crosses the centerline. Only tighten the sheets after the jib has crossed the centerline of the boat on it's own (if your sailing with a genoa, this means the bulk of the sail. In light air a genoa might need some assistance to clear obstructions, but wait until it needs it). Then they will fill and you're off on the new course. If you are tacking close hauled to close hauled (most frequent case), nothing needs to be done with your main. Just watch your apparent wind to make sure you don't turn too far. When done correctly there should be very little loss of speed and momentum (even on a Mac). The key is to turn fast and when you reach the other tack, reverse rudder quickly to stop your swing.

I think you'll find that the X (and M) usually tack just fine with the advice DHK79 has provided. But in higher winds you'll get stuck in irons a few times if you don't make a habit out of backwinding the jib (in my case, actually a Genoa). I had been sailing my new M just fine for a few months with my keelboat tacking skills when I started getting stuck in the fresher April winds.

These boats suffer from three problems that complicate tacking when compared to a keelboat:

a) They're very light, having less than half the momentum of keel boat their size. That means half the motive force to move under momentum alone. If anything goes wrong, such as a fouled jib sheet or an over-eager crewman who looses the jib too early, you'll be stuck.
b) Very high freeboard, which acts as sail area pushing back against the tack that you can't do anything about. This slows your turning through irons.
c) Much higher rudder deflection than a keelboat when hard-over. When hard-over, the rudders can stop these boats like brakes because they're tied to the same steering system as the outboard, which must be able to deflect more than 30 degrees in order to turn properly while powering.

I recommend keeping your helm to 20 degrees or less and not hard over while tacking. On these boats, hard over can be 45 degrees of deflection, which really slows the boat down and contributes to loss of momentum in a tack, which contributes to being stuck in irons.

In all, yes these boats will tack 90% of the time with no issues tacking them the same way you'd tack a keelboat. But they tack 100% of the time if you backwind the jib just long enough to get completely rotated around and let the winds push the boat through the tack for you.

When tacking the standard command to the crew is "Helm's A-Lee". What this signifies is that the helmsman has THROWN the helm HARD over to the leeward side of the boat. What that means on a boat with a wheel helm is that you spin that wheel. Leave the jib sheets lashed as they are until they start to back on their own, then just release the cleat. DO NOT force the issue by tightening them in on the other side too soon, doing so will slow your progress and could stall your tack. The jib will first back and then luff as it crosses the centerline. Only tighten the sheets after the jib has crossed the centerline of the boat on it's own (if your sailing with a genoa, this means the bulk of the sail. In light air a genoa might need some assistance to clear obstructions, but wait until it needs it). Then they will fill and you're off on the new course. If you are tacking close hauled to close hauled (most frequent case), nothing needs to be done with your main. Just watch your apparent wind to make sure you don't turn too far. When done correctly there should be very little loss of speed and momentum (even on a Mac). The key is to turn fast and when you reach the other tack, reverse rudder quickly to stop your swing.

This mirrors my experience with tacking the 26X. I use the working jib rather than the Genoa for general convenience and to reduce heeling in stronger winds, and I find that the boat tacks very nicely. I am familiar with backing the jib in Hobie catamarans. I had two of those, and backing the jib was essential in tacking, but I find the Mac 26X very nimble in coming about, especially with the working jib.

My experience is purely on the 26M with the big 150% RF Genoa. It's quite likely that a hank-on jib comes about more easily. Also, my initial assertion was overly assertive--the boats often tack fine without backwinding, just not 100% reliably. I shouldn't have implied that backwinding is always necessary.

Matt, thanks a thousand times over for sharing your insights and experiences with us (including this "jewel"). I've printed several of your posts so I don't have to go looking for them later. I too sail an M with a 150 Genoa and am in the habit of backwinding the genoa by maintaining tension on the working sheet until the bow comes through and starts to fill on the new tack. Works well for me.

Note that many kids and Admirals do not think highly of heeling beyond 15-20 degrees.

I use (no financial interest) Bill's EZ-Cleats for pretty nice (for me) tacking.

Alright, I'll personally reserve judgment on this one for a couple months. While the BS flag is not flying at present, it's still firmly lashed to the halyard.

Granted the only Mac I have much experience with is mine but I have yet to note any problems with tacking (nor having the rudders overly slow the boat). I have always been extremely pleased with how well the boat turned at all points of sail and the sailor in me will tend to lean towards tuning or procedure when someone reports an issue like this.

To clear up any possible confusion on my part, when you noted backing the jib are you giving that name to the procedure where you haul the jib in to windward as if you were going to heave-to?

Doug (DHK79)

I think rather than haul in the windward sheet, they mean just to leave the sheet cleated in until the bow is through the turn, then tension the sheet on the leeward side

The Mac is under-ruddered and if you turn the wheel hard over in light air, you are stalling the rudders.

The wheel is moved slowly through a tack, once you get the bow moving, bring the wheel back to centre to keep the boat speed up and let the wind finish the tack. If you time your tacks you will find this is much faster than locking the wheel.

Hi Doug,

No, I did mean simply leaving the jib cleated until the boat is through irons, and then performing the tack once the headwind has pushed the boat onto its ultimate course.

It's my experience with the 150 Genoa that the boat is not a particularly bad pointer _at speed_ compared to a keel boat. According to my wind instrument, a WSO100, I'm able to tack through 110 degrees just fine (meaning the boat can point to 55 degrees of true wind), which matches the performance of my big keel boat. The MacGregor makes a bit more leeway than the big boat, but not by an important amount as long as you can maintain 5 knots. Below that, the leeway gets pretty extreme, especially on a beam reach if you're trimmed in too tight which is an easy mistake to make if you're coming from a keelboat that cares a lot less.

Where the Mac doesn't do as well is in pinching. The keel boat can pinch down to below 40 degrees usefully, whereas the Mac can do very little below 50 degrees because leeway overwhelms headway at that point.

In all MacGregors are very solid performers, they just take a bit more knowledge of the boat to sail them well and they're less forgiving of trim errors, which shows up as loosing headway quickly if you're not watching your helm. The big keelboat just goes no matter how it's trimmed. With the Mac, I sail mainsheet in hand to respond to gusts quickly. That helps a lot to maximize speed and keep the heel even.

#1 most important mod to a MacGregor for good sailing is a windex at the top of the mast. Despite the fact that I've instrumented both of my boats to the reasonable maximum, I sail daily by the windex and the tell-tales.

OK, thanks for the clarification. That does makes more sense than what I was initially envisioning.

What you are doing will definitely slow you down as you tack, even if it helps avoid you stalling in irons. I still have some reservations, however, about doing this on a routine basis. By taking this approach, you are in essence planning to have a problem and are giving up a lot of your headway to avoid it. Rather than taking this approach every time you tack, I would recommend tacking the headsail by "normal" methods and if it looks like you may stall in irons – reach up and grab the boom and push the main out into the wind to help with the final part of the turn.

There do seem to be some basic differences in how our two boats handle. So far these are just general impressions on my part, in comparison to what you’ve noted about yours. Now whether these differences are due to mods that have been made or basic tuning are yet to be determined. I plan to take some accurate measurements next time I go out to get a better baseline for investigation. The first points I want to look at are actual rudder deflection, as I do not feel a hard rudder stops my motion through the water. The second is how high into the wind can I comfortably sail (I frequently sail single-handed, so I am not using a winch to really haul in on the jibsheets and my mainsheet is only two-part), as I think even without really working at it I am sailing higher into the wind than you are noting.

FYI, how far you deploy a 150% Genoa also is a factor. I often don't deploy it fully. My focus is often on the kiddies smiles.

My windex show that I can sail (apparent wind) up to 30% port or starboard before my sails start to luff. Sails better at 45 - 60%

One more initial measurement should be added - Mast Rake. This factor could easily account for some differences in pointing ability.

dlandersson wrote:My windex show that I can sail (apparent wind) up to 30% port or starboard before my sails start to luff. Sails better at 45 - 60%

Off hand I would say that is pretty close to the mark. When I installed my Windex I separated the two flags by 60 degrees and it has served as very good guide. 30 degrees is a bit hairy requiring constant vigilance, but 32-35 is a piece of cake.

It's important to note that I was talking about 55 degrees to true wind, which at 5 knots is around 35 degrees to apparent wind. So I think we're probably talking about the same thing. Also, with a 110% working jib I'd expect better pointing than my 150% roller furling genoa.

The M does not have much in the way of rake adjustment possible due to the rotating mast joint, which must be very close to straight up in order to function. On the M, an easily rotating mast indicates correct rake. On an X, you have some options.