new purchase Macgregor 26'

[npsrangerchuck]

Many superstitions about boats are founded in illegal activity carried out by unscrupulous owners who would try and defraud insurance companies for the value of the supposed cargos.

A typical example was renaming a boat was considered bad luck as the owners would rename a unseaworthy ship to the name of a good one and then arrange for it to sink so they could claim the insurance, needless to say sailors were reluctant to sail on a renamed ship

Alright, now THAT's a great origin story! Makes a ton of sense too! We renamed our first Mac (an old Venture22) but with our new (to us) , "Dragonfly" was a perfectly acceptable name....

[Ixneigh]

Regarding renaming ships anyone else heard that urban legend that they did exactly that with the titanic and the Olympic?

[Highlander]

Very appropriate Tom. Hey! Do you have one of those fancy CAD picture of the aft section of an M boat? Or maybe a geometric representation of the angle of the rudder at the waterline at the 50 degree angle? We are trying to figure out when the rudder comes out of the water on another post.

Well here,s me on Beene,s boat he,s hiked out as rail meat @ the shrouds shooting this video of me bringing his rudders right out of the water if u watch closely u will see the S/B rudder come out of the water a few times lol
http://vid235.photobucket.com/albums/ee ... 0_4561.mp4


J

[BOAT]

Very appropriate Tom. Hey! Do you have one of those fancy CAD picture of the aft section of an M boat? Or maybe a geometric representation of the angle of the rudder at the waterline at the 50 degree angle? We are trying to figure out when the rudder comes out of the water on another post.

Well here,s me on Beene,s boat he,s hiked out as rail meat @ the shrouds shooting this video of me bringing his rudders right out of the water if u watch closely u will see the S/B rudder come out of the water a few times lol
http://vid235.photobucket.com/albums/ee ... 0_4561.mp4


J

Yeah, this just really shows what I had experienced too and it's a great video - it shows that the boat really can't knock down - it just gets pushed over to a point and when there it's just not enough sail left upright to move the 1000 pounds under the hull. Great vid. You should post this one on the other post called "Flipping a Mac"

[Tomfoolery]

Very appropriate Tom. Hey! Do you have one of those fancy CAD picture of the aft section of an M boat? Or maybe a geometric representation of the angle of the rudder at the waterline at the 50 degree angle? We are trying to figure out when the rudder comes out of the water on another post.

I'm afraid I don't. And since I don't have an , I can't measure and draw one. It's complicated by the fact that the hull shape dictates the depth as it heels, and that of course varies with heel angle, though the volume of water displaced is essentially unchanged since the boat's weight is unchanged.

[BOAT]

I have a pretty good notion that it's impossible to get both rudders out of the water - I think the back corner of the boat on the water side digs in too deep into the water to allow the rudder to get out of the water, but I have no way to prove it. John and Beane have been burying these boats in the strong Canadian winds for years and they have yet to get both rudders out of the water from what I have seen. I have tried but the boat just spills wind before I can get it to heel over that far. We even tried putting all our weigh on the low side trying to bury the cockpit gunnel but were unable.

[LoHo]

Has anyone done the tie-the-boat-to-a-dock-and-pull-the-mast-down test? Is there a point of no return or are they self-righting?

[Tomfoolery]

Has anyone done the tie-the-boat-to-a-dock-and-pull-the-mast-down test? Is there a point of no return or are they self-righting?

Roger MacGregor did, at least to 90 degrees. I heard the angle of vanishing stability is more like 110 degrees, but can't back that up. But at 90 degrees, it'll pop right back up as long as the sails aren't full of water and holding it down. But even that's solved by releasing the sheet(s), and I'm not so sure the jib can even hold water as the boat self-rights. Maybe the baggier genoa.

[Tomfoolery]

Coastal Recreation did the same thing with the Aquarius 23. I have a sequence of four pics on my computer of an A23 held on its side, with sails up, then righting itself when let loose. Here's three of them.







I had one. So did BOAT.

I don't know how common it was for trailer boats with ballast to be stable to at least 90 degrees, but for 'family recreation' type boats, I would think (or hope) that it was/is quite common.

Edit: I should add that the first pic (not shown) mentions that the swing CB is fully retracted. It's a 165 lb steel unit, requiring a winch to retract, but the boat also had a lead 'skiff keel', which while shallow, runs most of the length of the boat. Total ballast was advertised at 815 lb. But it was notable that even with the CB retracted, you could still lay the boat on its side and it would self-right. And those boats were fun to heel to 30 degrees and dangle your hand in the water on the low side.

[BOAT]

Many years on the A23 taught us that ballast position determines the righting angle velocity. After years of sailing that we just became accustomed to feeling the "legs" of the boat kick in at much steeper angles. You just get used to it. The A23 had a VERY round bottom so the harder angles did not really slow you down. We would just let the boat heel - and I can tell you we buried the windows ALL THE TIME. It's a lot harder to do on the M boat.

Prior to that we were accustomed to "traditional" boats:
The Catalina 27 finds it's feet at 20 degrees - at 45 degrees the boat starts taking in water over the side because the heavy keel pushes the boat deeper into the water the further over the boat goes - in a strong gale there is enough wind to bury the Catalina 27 dangerously enough to swamp it. That is the "vanishing point" for any boat - that's when things don't work anymore - when the water starts gushing in.

A boat with a low free-board that is very wide in the middle and very narrow forward and aft is a great boat for cutting through the waves but it's Achilles heel is when it tips over - the wide gunnels are the first things to get buried when heeling. The Catalina 27 like most traditional boats that we have all grown to respect as very seaworthy all have this same issue of submarine-ing the gunnels when excessively heeled. That's why it's very dangerous to excessively heel a traditional keel boat but not really dangerous at all to excessively heel the MAC M boat because the MAC M boat does not have a wide berth, and it's gunnels are very high up in the air (it's that high free-board that we all complain about when at anchor or when getting knocked around by the waves). But that high free-board is also what keeps the boat so dry at 45 degrees - something most boats can not do.

You can figure out a lot about the sailing philosophy of Roger MacGregor by looking at the MAC65, (his own personal boat). That boat was designed to heel excessively with a very narrow berth. We all have a concept of what is "seaworthy" or safe based on silly notions - I can tell you that shipbuilders of the 1700's schooners and the designers of the 1900 era battle ships would disagree with our notions. The MAC M boat is plenty "seaworthy" in a heavy sea - it's just not COMFORTABLE in a heavy sea. Big difference.



On top is the water line of a C27 at 90 degree heel angle - on the bottom is the waterline of the M boat at 90 degree heel angel.
Which boat would you want to be in at 90 degrees??

[mrron_tx]

Not to anyone in particular, but just remember that an admiral aboard a Navy vessel is not normally the master or skipper (or whatever - I was never in the Navy), and the captain retains control of, and responsibility for, the ship or boat (in the case of a sub). He/she may be directed to perform in a certain way, especially in battle, but the Captain is the one that owns it, in a manner of speaking.

So my Admiral is the bureaucrat who to great degree controls the budget and finances, and often determines the destination, yet she's essentially a passenger when under way, and it's all on me as to what that boat does and when it does it.

I single-hand almost always, even with 'crew' aboard, so this is no different, at least as I see it, and especially when brass is on board.

You are correct about the Captain being in charge even with an Admiral onboard. When I was in the Navy , stationed in Subic Bay P.I.We used to carry "COM NAV SURF PAC "and His staff to and from Japan to Pearl Harbor and so forth. The Admiral was petty cool , but His staff were trouble makers.... oh well. Ron.

[Tomfoolery]

You are correct about the Captain being in charge even with an Admiral onboard. When I was in the Navy , stationed in Subic Bay P.I.We used to carry "COM NAV SURF PAC "and His staff to and from Japan to Pearl Harbor and so forth. The Admiral was petty cool , but His staff were trouble makers.... oh well. Ron.

And when she's on board, that would make your vessel the flagship. And she can fly her own flag.

[Freedom77]

My Dad was aboard the Original USS Midway CVE63, Not the one in San Diego, which was an escort carrier, better known as a jeep carrier. In October 1944 the new Midway, the one in San Diego, was launched and his ship was renamed the USS St. Lo. 14 days later the USS St. Lo had the distinction of being the first U.S. Navy ship to be sunk by a Kamikaze on October 25, 1944 at the battle of Leyte Gulf in the Phillipines. Superstition? I'm just sayin'. Fair Winds and Full Sails...Old Salt...

[mrron_tx]

You are correct about the Captain being in charge even with an Admiral onboard. When I was in the Navy , stationed in Subic Bay P.I.We used to carry "COM NAV SURF PAC "and His staff to and from Japan to Pearl Harbor and so forth. The Admiral was petty cool , but His staff were trouble makers.... oh well. Ron.

And when she's on board, that would make your vessel the flagship. And she can fly her own flag.

Yep.... I forgot that part Ron.

[Catigale]

My Dad was aboard the Original USS Midway CVE63, Not the one in San Diego, which was an escort carrier, better known as a jeep carrier. In October 1944 the new Midway, the one in San Diego, was launched and his ship was renamed the USS St. Lo. 14 days later the USS St. Lo had the distinction of being the first U.S. Navy ship to be sunk by a Kamikaze on October 25, 1944 at the battle of Leyte Gulf in the Phillipines. Superstition? I'm just sayin'. Fair Winds and Full Sails...Old Salt...

There is a tradition of San Diego sailors to pay respect to the original Midway by knocking down channel markers...or at least trying to. Be proud at each broken mast.