I carried a gun when I was a teenager; an M60; in 'Nam.
I don't carry a gun when I am sailing.
Should one carry a gun when sailing?
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Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL
- Admiral
- Posts: 1006
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:28 pm
- Sailboat: MacGregor 26D
- Location: Oconomowoc, WI
correction to faulty murder statistics
Tampa Mac
Hope you don't mind if I correct your statistik a little - that's it no interest in offering an opinion on the gun issue - just have a problem with slightly faulty statistics.
The number of an average 9.2 murders per population of 100,000, averaged nationwide for the US is / was about right for the time period - presuming my memory serves me right - not challenging that number anyway. However the other numbers you quoted are not exactly right. Those numbers at the time were varying (Western Europe) between 1.0 or so murders per 100,000 population (Switzerland - every male has their army issue rifle at home) to 1.7 per 100,000 for the highest country - forgot which one that was.
Either way, I remember getting pi$$ at the time reading the statistic in our local newspaper, because I figured that in my country of choice (the USA) the murder rate in effect is about seven times as high on a per capita basis as in those western European countries and I really see no reason to like that or not wanting to change that - anyway, so I remembered the numbers.
To back it up, I checked at the Bundeskriminalamt in Germany
Their official statistic lists that a total of
3288 murders and manslaughters occured in 1997 (93% of which were solved).
There was a population of about 82 Million in Germany (East & West combined) at that time. So, that would make for a 4 per 100,000 rate.
Looks like your numbers are right - but, the devil is in the detail and in the reporting. 3288 was the number for murders AND manslaughter. The number for murders (with out manslaughter...) that occured in 1997 in Germany was 1036.
That makes for a rate of 1.26 murders per 100,000 population in Germany in 1997, which is the one to compare to the 9.2 (or whatever it was that year) murders per 100,000 population in the USA
Didn't find that statistik in English for that year, but did so for the year 2002:
2664 murders AND manslaughters occored in Germany in 2002 (96% solved) - (page 11 & 15 in the 2002 crime statistic).
There also is a total number given for offenses against life (which I believe includes unsuccesful attempts - see for yourself in the statistic) that number is 3541 (page 16)
The number for murders that year is 873 (page 16 in the crime statistics).
The population that year was 82,536,700.
Thus the murder rate was 1.06 per 100,000 population in 2002 in Germany.
Not sure how to do a link, but you can find the 2002 crime-statistic in English at:
http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2002ev/pcs_2002.pdf
Naturaly, as with all statistics it matters how one counts, but the article I read at the time (and can't find now) compared murder rates (not murder and manslaughter and accidental death etc.) and in that comparison we came out at about a 7 times higher rate than Western Europe. Still don't like that and still don't have the foggiest (realistic) idea what to do about it...
Hope you don't mind if I correct your statistik a little - that's it no interest in offering an opinion on the gun issue - just have a problem with slightly faulty statistics.
The number of an average 9.2 murders per population of 100,000, averaged nationwide for the US is / was about right for the time period - presuming my memory serves me right - not challenging that number anyway. However the other numbers you quoted are not exactly right. Those numbers at the time were varying (Western Europe) between 1.0 or so murders per 100,000 population (Switzerland - every male has their army issue rifle at home) to 1.7 per 100,000 for the highest country - forgot which one that was.
Either way, I remember getting pi$$ at the time reading the statistic in our local newspaper, because I figured that in my country of choice (the USA) the murder rate in effect is about seven times as high on a per capita basis as in those western European countries and I really see no reason to like that or not wanting to change that - anyway, so I remembered the numbers.
To back it up, I checked at the Bundeskriminalamt in Germany
Their official statistic lists that a total of
3288 murders and manslaughters occured in 1997 (93% of which were solved).
There was a population of about 82 Million in Germany (East & West combined) at that time. So, that would make for a 4 per 100,000 rate.
Looks like your numbers are right - but, the devil is in the detail and in the reporting. 3288 was the number for murders AND manslaughter. The number for murders (with out manslaughter...) that occured in 1997 in Germany was 1036.
That makes for a rate of 1.26 murders per 100,000 population in Germany in 1997, which is the one to compare to the 9.2 (or whatever it was that year) murders per 100,000 population in the USA
Didn't find that statistik in English for that year, but did so for the year 2002:
2664 murders AND manslaughters occored in Germany in 2002 (96% solved) - (page 11 & 15 in the 2002 crime statistic).
There also is a total number given for offenses against life (which I believe includes unsuccesful attempts - see for yourself in the statistic) that number is 3541 (page 16)
The number for murders that year is 873 (page 16 in the crime statistics).
The population that year was 82,536,700.
Thus the murder rate was 1.06 per 100,000 population in 2002 in Germany.
Not sure how to do a link, but you can find the 2002 crime-statistic in English at:
http://www.bka.de/pks/pks2002ev/pcs_2002.pdf
Naturaly, as with all statistics it matters how one counts, but the article I read at the time (and can't find now) compared murder rates (not murder and manslaughter and accidental death etc.) and in that comparison we came out at about a 7 times higher rate than Western Europe. Still don't like that and still don't have the foggiest (realistic) idea what to do about it...
theft rate
Oh yeah,
theft rate is very high in Europe. It is.
Now, if only I could convince every guy on drugs to learn how to pickpocket instead of killing for drug money that might have an impact on our murder rates - or are we really that mad at each other that we kill each other for that reason?
theft rate is very high in Europe. It is.
Now, if only I could convince every guy on drugs to learn how to pickpocket instead of killing for drug money that might have an impact on our murder rates - or are we really that mad at each other that we kill each other for that reason?
Only In America
Hand Guns and Sailboats?
I thought Sailing was to relax and find peace with the wind and break free from the worries of a stress filled life. What are you going to shoot at? Wild attacking Manatees? Militant Pelicans? I can only imagine magregorparts comiing out with the stainless gun rack / stern rail combo.
Delete this thread. It's not the topic that worries me but the fact it's on page 4 or 5 by now.
I thought Sailing was to relax and find peace with the wind and break free from the worries of a stress filled life. What are you going to shoot at? Wild attacking Manatees? Militant Pelicans? I can only imagine magregorparts comiing out with the stainless gun rack / stern rail combo.
Delete this thread. It's not the topic that worries me but the fact it's on page 4 or 5 by now.
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mike
- Captain
- Posts: 812
- Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:06 pm
- Location: MS Gulf Coast "Wind Dancer" 98 26X
Re: Only In America
Actually, a good rifle would probably be a better choice, if you've got the room for it.BobCardz wrote:Hand Guns and Sailboats?
Dolphins too.I thought Sailing was to relax and find peace with the wind and break free from the worries of a stress filled life. What are you going to shoot at? Wild attacking Manatees? Militant Pelicans?
On our recent trip, I took along a Glock 9mm. A few acknowledgments...
1) I realize that, with a small pistol, I'm not going to fend off a determined (and well armed) pirate / thief.
2) In our coastal cruising, the likelihood of us actually encountering a situation where a gun is needed is very slim.
That said, having a gun handy makes me feel safer and more secure, just in case. I know how to handle firearms and I know how to keep them away from my kids. In other words, for me and many other people, having a firearm available IS part of eliminating the "worries of a stress filled life."
Plus, a gun can be a useful signaling tool (please, no "that's a heck of a way to get someone's attention... shoot them!" jokes).
Delete the thread? That's a bit extreme, isn't it? It's no surprise that it's so long... the topic of guns on boats is obviously a very controversial (but legitimate) one.Delete this thread. It's not the topic that worries me but the fact it's on page 4 or 5 by now.
--Mike